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Riot: "We're having Akali keep her shroud as it makes her very unique."

Forhonor321·1/15/2019, 3:52:57 PM·92 votes·22,221 views

Also Riot: "Let's remove Irelia's bonus damage to shields and disarm effect that made her a bit unique."

...I want to say I don't understand Riot's balancing anymore but I've been telling myself this for a long time now.

OK, look, Irelia I can understand can be a annoying and shitty champ to play against, I get that, but is really removing some unique aspects to her going to solve the problems with her? Not maybe, Idk, reducing the time it takes for her to get max stacks? A small delay when gaining stacks so she doesn't dash 3 times on your ass while you get stunned? Maybe increasing the stack max as another person suggested? Any other possibilities that you could of think up?

Why is it that when a champ seems problematic, Riot thinks they should remove what made that champ unique to begin with? Look back at Ornn, he had a unique thing for Unstoppable, which Riot then removed. Granted, yes they brought it back but at certain costs. And yet they're willing to have some champs keep things that really should never be allowed, like Akali as previously said with having a perma invisible stealth or camoflauge (whatever the fuck it is idkoc) and dive under towers with it. That is seen as more healthy than a champ who has a niche against shield comps and a unique ult mechanic?

I'm really questioning how Riot determines what unique aspects are worth keeping and what need to go.

Idk, discuss.

141 Comments

Hayaishi21/15/2019, 4:09:07 PM42 votes

Disarm and damage to shields don't make Irelia unique. It's the dashing that does.

Seems to me Riot doesn't know that to do with her. Irelia is probably impossible to balance because there is no way of giving her counterplay without said counterplay making her useless.

Moonscourge1/15/2019, 5:28:12 PM33 votes

Not once have I thought "Oh, yes Irelia deals bonus damage to shields! That really mattered!" whereas shroud is a HUGE and very obvious gameplay mechanic.

Burns Master1/15/2019, 5:42:51 PM17 votes

I mean shields feel pretty useless anyways but the shield damage mechanic is still pretty unique. Same with the disarm, even though most people run away from her when she ults. It seems stupid that riot is scared of a simple solution so they desperately beat around the bush instead of addressing simpler spots, destroying what makes champs unique. Honestly, I'd just...

you ready?

LOWER HER DAMAGE

Or tweak her dashes, that too.

Vekkna1/15/2019, 5:30:26 PM13 votes

You can always count on Riot to single out the most toxic part of a champ and then triple-down on that "unique strength" as the champ's core identity. They'll nerf the champ into the ground to preserve that thing, even if the result is totally unplayable.

Vayne W, Fizz E, Zyra passive, Malz R, Akali W, irelia Q chain-resets, Yasuo W, Tahm ally W, Liss enemy R, and so on.

Sirsir1/15/2019, 4:17:29 PM8 votes

We've done the 'keeping the most broken thing on a champ cuz thats what makes them unique' dance before Kassadin

Admit you made a mistake and move on.

{quoted}

Seems to me Riot doesn't know that to do with her. Irelia is probably impossible to balance because there is no way of giving her counterplay without said counterplay making her useless.

We need more anti-mobility in this game. More poppy Ws and grounding spells.

Skorch1/16/2019, 4:22:32 AM6 votes

I despised the fact Irelia had disarm and shieldbreak.

Why?

Not because i thought they made her stronger, but because i felt like they tacked those on because of what was strong at the time. ADCs and Enchanters are strong? Let's give our next release champion a disarm and shieldbreak despite neither of these existing prior to this champion.

That is the most piss-poor way to balance possible. I'm happy they removed that awful example.

Abibyama II1/15/2019, 4:29:15 PM4 votes

I thought people hated riot for making champions unique?

LordGeovanni1/15/2019, 10:55:45 PM3 votes

That bonus damage to shields was broken and over tuned even if they wanted to keep it I agree with the disarm though.

Sire Hippington1/15/2019, 6:07:24 PM3 votes

I hardly think anyone really asociates the anti shield mechanic with Irelia, most people probably aren't even aware of it at all, and she didn't have it befor the rework. It's in no way iconic for her nor what really makes her unique or a reason for people to pick her up. The disarm on the ult also is not really something well asociated with her, but i agree that it gives her a more unique strength as a fighter that does well into AA-based teams, though that also is jax's niche so still nothing that **really **makes her unique.

I really doubt that anyone will play her after this change and then go 'man, this just doesn't feel like Irelia anymore'...

As for Akali, yea, something needs to change. The shroud it's self is fine and certainly icnonic, but the 'true stealth' thing doesn't feel neccesary, and the paired with the rest of her low counterplay kit it can get very frustraiting to face. Maybe they should swap it with her ult, give her a dash+damage(maybe a quick dash in a line and then a delayed damage in that line) in her basekit and make the smokescreen a highish CD ult so disengageing and waiting it out actually means something.

TheLegendaddy1/15/2019, 7:10:07 PM3 votes

on the topic of unique, remember when draven had a bleed and him and darius really felt like brothers? riot monkey dev team

Flawless Fetus1/15/2019, 8:15:04 PM3 votes

Mehhhhh. I think what they should have said was unique and core to their kit. If you pick irelia, it isn't to deal bonus damage to shields was passive is fully charged. Lol. You pick her for the dashing and maybe the disarm (which also got removed). The shroud is pretty core to Akali. Lol.

Jabberwöcky1/16/2019, 12:53:29 AM3 votes

Next time on DragonBallRiot- Will Riot remove Nocturnes darkness on his ult? FIND OUT NEXT TIME!

MorgManBasher1/16/2019, 8:00:45 PM2 votes

If you can't understand just how overloaded irelia's kit is where she doesn't need all this extra fat, I don't know what to tell you.

Honestly some things should be stripped from akali's kit as well.

Bârd1/15/2019, 11:46:00 PM2 votes

Irelia's bonus damage to shield is about as core to her identity as Ekko's bonus on hit damage to low HP champions, in that I'm pretty sure about half of players didn't realize they did those things and don't particularly care.

Eranell1/16/2019, 5:15:14 AM2 votes

A very much overlooked aspect of Irelia's lane dominance in my oppinion is, that her Q also has a heal that procs from everything and benefits from life steal (mainly dorans blade, if you dont go for corruping potion from the beginning). As soon as you have trinity force your Q heals for more than it costs mana.

Duellists/Bruisers shouldn't be able to stay in lane indefinitely just through their kit. Darius and Fiora at least have to hit the enemy champion to proc their heal. If you cant out-duel Irelia from 100-0 half way into the laning phase she heals faster than you can say f*ck.

Same goes for Akali. There is no reason for her Q to have a heal especially since she uses energy as a resource. If you really want an assassin to have some heal do it in the way Riot did it with Talon and Kha'Zix. Moderate cooldown, makes you vulnerable to enemy poke, actually costs you ressources and doesn't scale with their prefered stat whatsoever but instead solely with champion level/ability rank.

Having Gunblade as rushed core item on Akali gives her an absurd amount of heals for an assassin, making poke against her almost meaningless. Not to mention that the heal on her Q scales with its PREMITIGATION damage. I really think Riot underestimates the power of heals.

Serika Zero1/16/2019, 6:04:46 AM2 votes

Becauseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. Its subjective. What you think make Irelia/Akali/others unique is not necessarily the same thing I think makes them unique. Same argument was done with: the champion doesn't fit its lore anymore. Or, this champion doesn't fit its "identity" anymore.

And so on. They are bullshit arguments, because its highly subjective. Vague language like this allows them do to whatever changes they want to do, which giving an actual argument, but, have some of the players defend them. And its not just a riot problem, this problem is wide spread in games, politics, schools, etc. As language keeps "losing" its power (as an example, on facebook, you can set your gender/sex to charmander if you want to RAWR hahahaha)

Vague language is often seductive. For this is the reason it creates some sort of attraction towards itself, as, everyone can, what's the word, oh right, project, their own reality on it and have it mean what they want it to mean.

Examples: for some, Diana is an assassin, a vengeful girl wanting to destroy that which caused her suffering. For others, she's a fighter, a bruiser that stays in fights and constantly attacks the enemy because she has anger issues (among other issues). For others she's just a bullshit unfair character that kills them or its useless. etc.

Bottom line is: instead of giving real arguments. Riot will resort to "argue" about unique, identity and fantasy of playing xxx champion instead of giving you the reason they are doing that change. And they do that to well, lower the disagreement in the community with their own changes. Its a manipulation tactic as old as humanity itself. But still works ofc.

PS: there's few such things as "facts". Generally because in order to interpret those "Facts" you need a framework of interpretation (Generally called context). Riot skips the "context" and just give you a vague "fact" resulting in their change ----> their change was entirely subjective and had nothing to do with the reason they gave.

Nevrankroaton1/16/2019, 6:09:45 AM2 votes

Aren't you the guys that say kit are overloaded and stuff?

Isn't that a good thing if you take what the board always ask?

TotalJerk1/16/2019, 2:51:51 PM2 votes

The shields were unnecessary bullshit shoehorned into her kit to give her a hamfisted direct counter to something everyone was complaining about at the time: shields. It really needs to go because it's blatantly just a "if you rely on this, then I win" mechanic.

KoKoboto1/16/2019, 12:26:38 AM2 votes

Why was AD Malzahar removed as a playstyle completely for his rework? It's one of the things that made him unique, being one of the few minion users in the game.