"Lee Sin is OP, low elo brings down his win rate"

youngjake93·1/5/2015, 11:21:04 PM·6 votes·1,346 views

Meanwhile, he has a 47% win rate in diamond lol. Lucian has a 46% win rate. Jayce has a 46% win rate. Vayne has a 47% win rate. Leblanc has a 47.7% win rate. Master "Noob Stomper" Yi has a 48% win rate. Zed has a 49% win rate. Janna has a 55% win rate in diamond and 34.6% popularity in diamond, but people aren't happy about her nerfs lol. http://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/diamond/by-winrate

People should stop acting like they are better at balancing games than professionals running one of the most balanced games on the market. And to the quote "win rate doesn't mean anything," lol it literally is how often that champion will win if played. The average diamond player will only win 49% of games with Zed. So much for OP.

19 Comments

Sachabot1/5/2015, 11:54:24 PM6 votes

Your point regarding the people who know balance is entirely correct, but they're not basing it off of winrate, which should be ignored as far as statistics go. It's pretty much a useless number. Winrate isn't used as a reference because there are too many other variables in play per game. Now, it is somewhat suggestive of a champion's nature in relation to each other, but nothing concrete or useful for seeing how well a champion is performing.

Warwick had a 55+% winrate for a while despite not having been buffed or changed. The rest of the game simply changed around him in a way that made him oppressive. Ashe and Zyra received a boost to their winrate back in S3, not because either of them was especially strong, but because they would be taken together bot lane. And because I know that won't convince you, what is the average score in each ranked bracket for each of the champions you listed? How often are they picked in each bracket? What do they build? How often are they picked/ignored by professionals (people who make money off of playing in the most optimized fashion)? How well do they perform at a professional level? Is there a difference in any of this in between the various servers?

All of the questions I asked are at least somewhat useful when discussing balance. Winrate isn't a part of that discussion, and shouldn't be.

Kuroi861/5/2015, 11:43:13 PM5 votes

Win rates are only part of the picture. Pick/Ban rates. K/D/A Who deals what kind of numbers in damage, healing, sustain, ect. Not to mention, high elo play is mostly about who makes the first mistake vs who capitalizes on it first.

Ch0c0lateJesus1/5/2015, 11:26:02 PM4 votes

The fact that Janna is being nerfed shows an obvious flaw in Riot's balance philosophy. Janna is a counter to certain play styles and comps, apparently she is a strong enough counter to the current meta that her win rate is going up.

So instead of trying to think outside the meta, we are going to nerf her so that the current faceroller towerdiver meta goes on. WP again Rito.

InsaneSamurai1/5/2015, 11:26:12 PM2 votes

Pros and Diamond players are not the entire game. They are actually a minority when compared to the entire population. Riot balances things based on the higher ranks a little too hard. If Lee is truly not a problem in the high ranks(which I find very hard to believe), then nerfing him so he isn't a problem in the low ranks won't hurt anyone.

ladention1/5/2015, 11:54:53 PM2 votes

So true. Idiots will downvote because all they care about is Lee Nerfs

Leblancs Boob1/6/2015, 6:02:29 AM1 votes

The game isn't 1v1, its a 5v5. There is so many more factors that go into winning than how well a single champion does. That is why winrate is a terrible judge of an individual champion's strength

Sire Hippington1/6/2015, 12:42:06 PM1 votes

wow, who isn't happy about Janna nerfs? I just see alot people cry about the sonanerf, but no one complains about janna nerfs, i rather complain that she isn't nerfed enough. Also, bad winrates don't mean much if they come with high popularity, even at diamond. A champion that constantly in the top ten winrates and also on the top of the pickrates however, shows to be to strong. Especially if said champion dominates proplay aswell There is still a huge gap from diamond to proplay, and if a champion is to dominant in proplay, he needs to be looked at even if he's not to strong in soloQ(stattisically). Janna is amongst top 10 winrates since serveral months, her popularity went up from average to one of the higest in the last few months, and she dominates proplay since worlds. Zed, Lee, jayce and LB are all mostly dominant in proplay, and their mains in higher elos oftenenough show why they are picked in pro play. However, many people that aren't experienced with them jump on the lcs hypetrain and fail, even in diamond(from my experience, most diamonds have a cupple of champs they main, and good overall skills like mapawareness and judgement of situations, but are not particulary good on champs they don't main)

Cenobite Azaziel1/6/2015, 6:23:44 PM1 votes

{quoted}

Meanwhile, he has a 47% win rate in diamond lol. Lucian has a 46% win rate. Jayce has a 46% win rate. Vayne has a 47% win rate. Leblanc has a 47.7% win rate. Master "Noob Stomper" Yi has a 48% win rate. Zed has a 49% win rate. Janna has a 55% win rate in diamond and 34.6% popularity in diamond, but people aren't happy about her nerfs lol. http://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/diamond/by-winrate

People should stop acting like they are better at balancing games than professionals running one of the most balanced games on the market. And to the quote "win rate doesn't mean anything," lol it literally is how often that champion will win if played. The average diamond player will only win 49% of games with Zed. So much for OP.

I don't know were you've been, there is always a zed QQ too. http://www.lolking.net/leaderboards/#/na/6

90% of the rooster = Zed, lucian, lee sin. IF you leader boards looks like an employee of the month wall, with the same jerks hanging there (champions), there is something really wrong with your balance. The major problem is that lee sin is broken since release. He was and still is TOP pick in the jungle. Doens't matter you comp, he has no weakness. ( falls off. sure. Play full ad shaco and tell me again who falls off late game).

Zed and lucian were good, got nerfed and vanished, and got back. Lee sin is a permanent top pick.