Reasons why I think the Dynamic Queue isn't the best

Kąi··160 votes·9,873 views

I’ve been climbing solo queue and only recently did I make an improvement with my ladder ranking. I got Masters 3x this Season but only got up to ~ 40lp and demoted right away, I keep on moving up and down D3 to D1, then I tried harder after the preseason patch came out (5.23) and eventually I reached Masters 240lp before they brought this Dynamic Queue Ranked which was today. I met a lot of solo queue players who are incredibly good with their role (if they get it) and sometimes go even / feed their ass off if they don’t. sometimes they carry even if they play in their offrole therefore everytime during champ select, most people would accommodate those guys who are “one trick ponies” and give them their roles and expect them to carry.

I haven’t played a lot of Dynamic Queue yet but I’m already foreseeing a lot of problems. I will list the problems I can think off with what I’ve seen so far and what problems could potentially arise in the future.

1.) Solo Queue Challenger Pride. Before, if you were up in the Challenger Ladder, everyone knows you’re GOOD AT PLAYING LEAGUE OF LEGENDS, there was no questions asked, now the pride of being in a challenger “SOLO QUEUE” ladder will be somewhat questionable. Even the better players know that having a “challenger solo queue” is still different than being in “challenger 5s”

2.) In the past, these guys who have played solo queue and climbed up the ladder obviously had to give up playing with their in “real life friends” to get better at league, most of their friends are not in the same bracket as them and they had to play alone, or maybe with a ‘duo partner’.

These guys are going to get hit the most, even though they’ve proven that they’re really good players, if they didn’t make a good amount of friends in their elo bracket, playing alone will make it really tough for them.

Why? 3.) Coordination and Synergy: when you’re all solo queue-ing or have a duo queue and you’re up against 5 man premade, the coordination and synergy that they have is just way better than just typing and pinging, this will basically make the game highly in favor to those who have 5 – man premade and have been practising together for a really long time.

4.) League of Throws Some (or even most) games in solo queue in the past is all about league of throwing, you could have a feeder in lane [and if you don’t tilt and just let it be (which is what you’re supposed to be doing)), there is still a high chance of winning. League of legends right now is set up in a way that one bad teamfight can lose you the game and before, whichever team “threw harder” is the one that’ll lose the game, but with the dynamic queue, the team that are coordinated, have voice communication and have played for a really long time are less likely to throw their leads.

5.) Wanting to make a team made of 5 people Now, with all of the upsides of having just 5 people queue in the dynamic queue ranked, everyone is going to want to make a 5s team, and the way ranked invites are set up is that you can invite someone as long as their only one tier below/above you. Diamond 1 people have friends in Plat 5 who are probably messaging them asking them to Dynamic Queue ranked with them and ask for carry which will cause the MMR problems that I will mention later on.

6.) Another problem that this ‘advantage’ creates is that, so what’s the point of having ranked 5s then? It’s very hard to set up a ranked 5s team before they released the dynamic queue, and now we’re supposed to try and find 3 – 4 people every game to play “dynamic” solo queue just so we can have the ‘advantage’.

7.) Duo vs 5-man Premade This can happen as long as the MMR of the 5-man premade is lower than those who are in a team with just a duo queue. I played a game wherein we had 3 individual players and me and my duo who are playing in their preferred roles we are all masters tier and we went up against a full team called “-----“ which is a challenger 5s team. Their solo queue is around low master – high diamond.

The thing about league is that effective team play beats everything, and even if we were individually better than them, they are able to tower dive perfectly, set up the ganks perfectly, call for teleports faster and all these other things that would make it easier for them to win.

8.) Duo Queueing was the best way to win (before) and it was easy to find a Duo Queue partner. Having a really good duo bot lane and trying to carry the game with that roaming support and trusting that the fed adc will win 1 vs 2 was pretty nice. Or a solo lane / jungle synergy who set up the ganks properly and roams around the map together was pretty good too. Now you can’t even duo queue anymore and only have those preferred roles because if one person puts “support/bot” the other person can’t put “support/bot” because “your team must cover a wider variety of roles before queue-ing up”

9.) Another Problem: (LP gains are weird) Okay, I just played another Dynamic Queue Game and it’s literally fucked for higher elos I think the reason why is that we don’t have enough players in the higher elo bracket. We had a D4 95lp, D2 18lp, D1 26lp, M1 194lp, and me M1 213lp We went up against CH530lp, M1 190lp, CH 740lp, CH610lp, and M1 390~lp. The reason why we had to go up against them is because they’re all “SOLO QUEUE”. They won the game and they only gained 2LP and we only each lost 3LP. (cause of difference in MMR) but since there aren’t many people in our bracket, most games will probably go like this unless the game was actually EVEN (ie: 5 premade vs 5 premade, 1 duo vs 1 duo, all solo vs all solo, etc.)

111 Comments

shyv32 votes

your reasons are a lot more valid than mine, but i think the real reason i hate this dynamic queue thing so much is that it doesn't matter if you're actually good.

i want to see my own skill level, and i want to be put in the rank i deserve. if i'm only at a gold skill level, then fuck it, i'll stay here. but if i can climb higher then i want to. and with this new soloq, it's not a test of individual skill at all. it would be a test of how well you can find 4 people to play with, use voice comms, and do weird cheese tactics to get an advantage every game.

if i ended up getting to diamond, i want it to be because i'm GOOD, not because i found 4 people to carry me there. we already have ranked 5s which are a test of how well you can work with your premade team. we don't need to turn soloq into ranked 5s. so stupid.

i keep saying "soloq" but it doesn't even exist anymore fml

Sojs5 votes

[{quoted}](name=trying too hard,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eKXYd8oE,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-01-15T06:08:29.025+0000)

your reasons are a lot more valid than mine, but i think the real reason i hate this dynamic queue thing so much is that it doesn't matter if you're actually good.

** i want to see my own skill level, **and i want to be put in the rank i deserve. if i'm only at a gold skill level, then fuck it, i'll stay here. but if i can climb higher then i want to. and with this new soloq, it's not a test of individual skill at all. it would be a test of how well you can find 4 people to play with, use voice comms, and do weird cheese tactics to get an advantage every game.

if i ended up getting to diamond, i want it to be because i'm GOOD, not because i found 4 people to carry me there. we already have ranked 5s which are a test of how well you can work with your premade team. we don't need to turn soloq into ranked 5s. so stupid.

i keep saying "soloq" but it doesn't even exist anymore fml

lmfao sure shows your own skill level when youre randomly matched with people who don't give one fuck who cry and afk when you call them out who troll pick who don't want to play as a team the individual skill youre talking about is based 100% on luck

shyv6 votes

everyone has bad teams. literally everyone.

SpongebobIsLife7 votes

not anymore :) so far I'm loving the dynamic que. I'm a mid / ad main, and today I duo'd with 2 of my buddies and we carried hard. The game seemed so much for more fun and less stressful for me. That I feel is the main problem with solo que, it's less fun and more stress, but dynamic que alleviates that by allowing you to play with friends, ergo bringing a better league experience. And even though we were a group of 3, we still had some pretty bad teammates in some of the games, but we were able to extend our influence and carry. The bottom line is, dynamic que alleviates many of the problems people have with solo que: less trolls, less afks, the game is more in your control, less stress, and more fun.

PiVoRx8 votes

But its no longer soloq and it forces you to find team mates to even compete. And i guess your experience will fall down when your 3man premade will meet against 5man premades.

The Fearcrow2 votes

But the thing is the system is designed to match players against similarly grouped teams. So a trio will get matched against another trio more than 75% of the time. If the other team's two remaining slots are filled with a duo then more likely than not the two slots on the other team will also be a duo. I'd honestly rather have the chance of my small group that works really well together go against a slightly bigger group and try to overcome them than be stuck playing as a duo lane who doesn't get any help from teammates who just don't care.

Slamurai Jack3 votes

I don't think you realize just how hard it is to consistently carry people who are a lot worse than you. I play a lot of normals and ranked and playing normals with my silver and gold friends doesn't feel any easier as a diamond player compared to just playing ranked.

Call A Dr4 votes

For people like me,

I don't enjoy top, I don't enjoy mid, I don't enjoy bot, but I love jungle, I can jungle all day long, I don't find anything else fun, I don't even wanna be apart of the game.

I try my best, but I just simply have no passion for a role such as that.

But now I have the ability to play what I find fun and what im good at, I can finally play to my potential instead of being dragged down because im forced to mid, which I just don't sync with the champs, I just don't feel them.

PDE5 Inhibitors5 votes

You had that ability. It was called teambuilder.

Wimbledofy2 votes

but you are still just as likely to be forced into another role than jungle.

Az801 votes

Ya I don't agree, I love JG too and that's all I want to play. The only other role I really like is supp, but if I put JG then Supp, I'm getting supp every single match and that's BS. So the only way I can get JG is by putting top or mid, the two most sought after and hope I don't get either, or hope someone in the character select will trade with me, and with that I have much longer queue times then I did before.

DeathBurst1 votes

Do you have a PBE account, or are you just guessing how the system will work?

Az801 votes

It's live in the US, I don't need a PBE account.

LaughingStapler10 votes

I agree so much with #1. Your ranked performance will reflect much less on your own skill now and it will be much more relevant who you know. People will be "carried" to their ELO even more than now and those who weren't will suffer for it. It may also lead to uneven game experiences. For example, one guy may get to Platinum playing 90% of his games with a 4-man premade. When he suddenly ques alone, he may be of high Silver quality and basically ruin those games. There is too much variance in terms of what a ranking means.

I made a similar post about these issues here.

Call A Dr1 votes

Nar, not necessarily, dunno if you know how the mmr system works, but for example, if a plat 1 is playing with a gold 5, if they lose, the plat 1 will lose like 50 mmr, but everytime he wins, he will gain 1 mmr.

Sojs9 votes

I don't know how people can hate it I have hated every single solo queue game I've been in for the last year I have over half of masters on ignore list and every single game I am forced to play with people I fucking hate

First time I've had fun on league in months was today

Call A Dr1 votes

Yeah, im with you, its better and funner, there's people who pray on people being at a disadvantage to win, and those people protest against this idea, because they no longer can abuse advantages such as that,

EthicaI7 votes

I sincerely concur with the above statement with the upmost upvotes upon upvotes. Ahri

Troiann7 votes

I agree. Just imagine finding four guys to just build a yasuo comp, play that shit every fucking game and collect the literal freelo. It's just bullshit.....I want to play soloqueue, not LCS.

We've all seen the LCS. We know how teams with good coordination plays.

35 minutes of farming in lane and seeing if you can get 400 CS by that time. Then one person dies, score is 0-1. But they get baron push three inhibs ggez.

Soloqueue was a place where you could actually ahve a major impact. Duo queuing was already pretty much hated by a lot of people but allowed you to have at least one person to have your back. But otherwise it's wandering into enemy territory. Having to work with strangers, people you've never met to achieve a common goal, it's what makes every game amazing. Yes it has it's cons, but also brings back a hell of a lot of good memories.

Now it's just gonna be, "oh damn, they have a yasuo, malphite, orianna, wukong, miss fortune. Obvious five man premade. Alright lemme go watch netflix and stop playing league for the day because I'm prob just gonna see a dozen more if I keep playing.

If you want to play with a team go play ranked 5s. Soloqueue is hectic and chaos. I fucking love it. Team coordination with your friends? That shit has no place in my beloved soloq.

BluePolarizer1 votes

I dunno, teams like that show up in LCS and they aren't instawin. Poke/disengage seem to be favored by pros. However the communication disadvantage is very real and sucks bad.

YambrinZ5 votes

Idk how it works, but it SHOULD work like: Solo = 10x solo's Duo = Must be matched against another duo Trio = Must be matched against another trio Quad= Matched against another quad

And with the duo/trio you could even make trios be paired with a duo for more synergy in game.... Just a thought though.

The Governer3 votes

It is supposed to work like that for Duo, Trio and Quad premade groups at least. Riot mentioned it somewhere, though I have never heard Riot say that solo players will be matched with/against 9 other solo players.

The problem with your suggestion is how Riot should handle the remaining solo player from a team with a Quad premade group. They should disallow Quad premade groups, in my opinion.

Fraggleroc4 votes

TLDR but u have my support!

Kąi5 votes

TLDR: a lot of problems will arise with the dynamic queue: 1.) Solo Queue Challenger Pride 2.) Guys who play solo queue and get really good at league (who made little friends cause they play to win) will get hit hard 3.) Coordination and Synergy will be +++ for the 5 man premade (sometimes they're not against another 5 man premade) so it's almost a free win 4.) League of Throws: games were lost depending on who "threw harder" but now, premade teams are less likely to throw. (free win for the 5-man team) 5.) It's hard to find 3-4 players to constantly play with you in ranked 5s, and now YOU MUST do it in solo queue too to get "these advantages" 6.) pretty much same ^ 7.) Duo vs 5 - man premade CAN HAPPEN! (1 duo queue on one team, and 5 man premade on the other) instawin for 5 man premade 8.) Duo Queue-ing was the best way to win before.... now you can't even DUO QUEUE with your 'only 2 main roles'

Ryko4 votes

Mm, I've only played a single game in the dynamic queue and while I didn't have a particularly negative experience, I can agree that the enemy team must have, it seemed they were severely outclassed. I understand the logic behind adding in dynamic queue (sort of) however I don't believe you can just make up for the synergy the dynamic group might have by increasing the over all MMR of their opponents 10 fold.

  • Furthermore, I think Riot needs to recognize the difference in single divisions at least in high elo. i.e. I shouldn't be allowed to play with 2 d1s and a d5, that d5 regardless of the role he assumes will nearly 100% be obliterated, even if the enemies elo wasn't inflated to compensate, a d5 can't compete with d1s let a lone masters/challengers.
TheVishual3 votes

{quoted}

I’ve been climbing solo queue and only recently did I make an improvement with my ladder ranking. I got Masters 3x this Season but only got up to ~ 40lp and demoted right away, I keep on moving up and down D3 to D1, then I tried harder after the preseason patch came out (5.23) and eventually I reached Masters 240lp before they brought this Dynamic Queue Ranked which was today. I met a lot of solo queue players who are incredibly good with their role (if they get it) and sometimes go even / feed their ass off if they don’t. sometimes they carry even if they play in their offrole therefore everytime during champ select, most people would accommodate those guys who are “one trick ponies” and give them their roles and expect them to carry.

I haven’t played a lot of Dynamic Queue yet but I’m already foreseeing a lot of problems. I will list the problems I can think off with what I’ve seen so far and what problems could potentially arise in the future.

1.) Solo Queue Challenger Pride. Before, if you were up in the Challenger Ladder, everyone knows you’re GOOD AT PLAYING LEAGUE OF LEGENDS, there was no questions asked, now the pride of being in a challenger “SOLO QUEUE” ladder will be somewhat questionable. Even the better players know that having a “challenger solo queue” is still different than being in “challenger 5s”

2.) In the past, these guys who have played solo queue and climbed up the ladder obviously had to give up playing with their in “real life friends” to get better at league, most of their friends are not in the same bracket as them and they had to play alone, or maybe with a ‘duo partner’.

These guys are going to get hit the most, even though they’ve proven that they’re really good players, if they didn’t make a good amount of friends in their elo bracket, playing alone will make it really tough for them.

Why? 3.) Coordination and Synergy: when you’re all solo queue-ing or have a duo queue and you’re up against 5 man premade, the coordination and synergy that they have is just way better than just typing and pinging, this will basically make the game highly in favor to those who have 5 – man premade and have been practising together for a really long time.

4.) League of Throws Some (or even most) games in solo queue in the past is all about league of throwing, you could have a feeder in lane [and if you don’t tilt and just let it be (which is what you’re supposed to be doing)), there is still a high chance of winning. League of legends right now is set up in a way that one bad teamfight can lose you the game and before, whichever team “threw harder” is the one that’ll lose the game, but with the dynamic queue, the team that are coordinated, have voice communication and have played for a really long time are less likely to throw their leads.

5.) Wanting to make a team made of 5 people Now, with all of the upsides of having just 5 people queue in the dynamic queue ranked, everyone is going to want to make a 5s team, and the way ranked invites are set up is that you can invite someone as long as their only one tier below/above you. Diamond 1 people have friends in Plat 5 who are probably messaging them asking them to Dynamic Queue ranked with them and ask for carry which will cause the MMR problems that I will mention later on.

6.) Another problem that this ‘advantage’ creates is that, so what’s the point of having ranked 5s then? It’s very hard to set up a ranked 5s team before they released the dynamic queue, and now we’re supposed to try and find 3 – 4 people every game to play “dynamic” solo queue just so we can have the ‘advantage’.

7.) Duo vs 5-man Premade This can happen as long as the MMR of the 5-man premade is lower than those who are in a team with just a duo queue. I played a game wherein we had 3 individual players and me and my duo who are playing in their preferred roles we are all masters tier and we went up against a full team called “-----“ which is a challenger 5s team. Their solo queue is around low master – high diamond.

The thing about league is that effective team play beats everything, and even if we were individually better than them, they are able to tower dive perfectly, set up the ganks perfectly, call for teleports faster and all these other things that would make it easier for them to win.

8.) Duo Queueing was the best way to win (before) and it was easy to find a Duo Queue partner. Having a really good duo bot lane and trying to carry the game with that roaming support and trusting that the fed adc will win 1 vs 2 was pretty nice. Or a solo lane / jungle synergy who set up the ganks properly and roams around the map together was pretty good too. Now you can’t even duo queue anymore and only have those preferred roles because if one person puts “support/bot” the other person can’t put “support/bot” because “your team must cover a wider variety of roles before queue-ing up”

9.) Another Problem: (LP gains are weird) Okay, I just played another Dynamic Queue Game and it’s literally fucked for higher elos I think the reason why is that we don’t have enough players in the higher elo bracket. We had a D4 95lp, D2 18lp, D1 26lp, M1 194lp, and me M1 213lp We went up against CH530lp, M1 190lp, CH 740lp, CH610lp, and M1 390~lp. The reason why we had to go up against them is because they’re all “SOLO QUEUE”. They won the game and they only gained 2LP and we only each lost 3LP. (cause of difference in MMR) but since there aren’t many people in our bracket, most games will probably go like this unless the game was actually EVEN (ie: 5 premade vs 5 premade, 1 duo vs 1 duo, all solo vs all solo, etc.)

I think if they split the queues respectively (into the old solo/duo and 5s) and then use this system it could be pretty cool. That way each person can get their role but you don't have 5s teams gangbanging your solo players

Old champ select was alot more flexible though

Zedex2 votes

Splitting the queue is the worst idea possible. Its like keeping teambuilder and the new champ select, theres going to be segregated queues and Riot doesn't like splitting the community like that.

Zedex3 votes

You don't have to worry about playing with a duo and going up against a five man premade. There was a Q&A about the new champ select in the preseason (or a breakdown of features, either one I can't remember, links somewhere sorry) and it stated that theres an extremely low chance(if at all) for the five man premades to be placed against anything other then another 5 man premade.

Spoofghoul3 votes

This is how we fix dynamic que

You will always lose the same amount of mmr/lp

But if you play as 5 you only gain 1/5th as 4 you only gain 1/4th as 3 only 1/3th

It's an mmr/lp gain nerf for dynamic groups to compensate for better communication and teamplay in premade groups

S H A Y C 03 votes

Plat 5 who are probably messaging them asking them to Dynamic Queue ranked with them and ask for carry which will cause the MMR problems that I will mention later on.

You say that like they dont do that now? As long as you can Q with anyone else and they can be an entire tier above or below you... this will remain. Its not dynamic Q that is the problem.

Furthermore, what business does a "Solo Q" have existing in a 5v5 Team game anyway? Seems to me it never belonged in the first place. Just for the arguments about how good you are if you can climb "without help" im pretty sure everybody has been carried a little bit in at least 20% of their games...because you arent the only person that has skill in the universe. So did you really climb all by yourself? Not really...every game you had 4 people helping you get that W and to say that you are the only thing that got you to master is narcissistic and naive ( please for the love of God, understand that its a general statement and not a personal attack)

Agyno3 votes

...Isn't the Q designed so that it tries to match up 3 man qs with other 3 man qs and vice versa...?

6KEMBE4ORBA2 votes

1 st – Dynamic groups Queue We are all familiar with one particular thing - “Majority wins”. Applies almost to anything. No need of further explanation. From my personal experience --- a major part of bad mannered people and a real toxicity™ generating source are the duo Premades in ranked games. They want to have it “their way” disregarding everyone else, even the pick order by abusing the swap mechanic* (HELLO @RIOT)

*Note: The new champ select won’t solve this issue

Having a duo/premades in SoloQueue and does it have place there at all, is a whole another discussion (which I’ve been part of numerous times) and I won’t focus on it. I’m using it just as an example.

Riot lifting the barrier and flooding the SoloQue results in:

  • unfair match-ups (5vs3 / 4vs3 / 4vs2, etc) – this is a huge one, as premades have clear advantages over enemy solo players. (voice comm/strategy/synergy) Riot stating that 5 will face 5, 4vs4 and etc - with their history of doing things - I'm sceptical + there is still MM chance for uneven groups match ups
  • generally premades use voice comm. Going solo means not only feeling, but actually being left out/ignored by the team. *
  • increasing the influence premades have in champ select and ingame compared to solo players.

Considering these things and the fact that Riot have been busy shoving us the “team mentality” and “teamwork op”... We have to ask/answer two logical questions:

Do we need this Queue change at all? If we are “ok” with this - Where is the ingame voice option/official Riot voice app?

I know the answer to that. Just pointing out Riot’s inconsistency with decisions and logic.* It's their trademark - to do things just for the sake of it. You can’t push towards all these changes and then backtrack with “NO INGAME VOICE FOLKS, SRY xD”, when it’s one of the most important features.

2 nd – New Champ Select

preliminary info about psn/champ allows trolls/dynamic groups and butthurt 3rd/4rd/Lastpick to ban out your champ. ^ Excluding this, I’m not sure about it – seems a bit unnecessary – as in “let’s just give away the bans to 3/4/5th pick”

Sadistic Cheese2 votes

so...I read through the complaints and I appreciate that you took the time to list things out as best you could...

however it seems (SEEMS, mind you) that what the OP is saying is that individual skill and talent is being minimized because Riot is doubling down on the concept that League is a TEAM game.

....like it has been all along. Like Riot has been trying to do since "Teamwork OP" was released seasons ago. Like they've been trying to promote with events that give bonuses for queueing with teams.

This focus on teams and teammates isn't new, is what I'm trying to say.

Why is it suddenly BAD that superior coordination and tactics trumps being able to click your mouse fastest? Mechanical skill is great but according to the Elo Hell believers, a good 90% of us HAVE that mechanical skill but we have dumb teammates whose LACK OF STRATEGY AND COORDINATION HOLDS US BACK. Supposedly, anyway.

League was a team game to begin with. There's no battle royale mode or even a 1v1 mode. The team element has been the focus of League all along. Why is it such a problem now?

WhatAGeinius1 votes

The problem is that when you're not playing as part of a premade, it's less a contest of who has the best coordination and teamwork and more a contest of which team just happened to roll the greater number of players that even had the access to the tools to coordinate.

Putting emphasis on coordination is fine for people who are playing with premades, but the thing is that not everyone is, and it's not fair to completely disregard the individual skill and decision making of a solo player just because they were matched up against a team of people who, unlike them, just so happened to have access to voice chat.

The point is that solo play shouldn't be ranked on the same ladder as organized play because they're effectively not even playing the same game.

UgotWrekt2 votes

Used to be able to carry if you were really good. Now, yeah good luck. There is NO way to carry if you join solo and you are against a 5 pre-made team. Even if you are awesome they can effectively communicate and shut you down. I predict a lot of solo players leaving league.

Dominick Destine2 votes

{quoted}

I predict a lot of solo players leaving league.

I'm honestly really close to just giving up. I am continually being matched against pre-mades.

WykiLoki2 votes

I have a friend in Masters and he apparently played against the full roster of CLG. They won... hell no obviously lost :P

At lower elos, the skill levels (or the lack thereof) can somewhat compensate for the 5v1+1+3 or etc. Once it gets to a higher elo where there's less players and skill becomes around even, every little advantage would matter. There needs to be a rule to make sure that this elo's still climbable without being ganged up by pre-made 5s.

Potential changes would be staggering lp gain based on number of people (30% less with premade 5, 20% at premade 4, etc.). Another would be to prevent pre-made 5s at higher elos and limit them as the tier goes up (diamond gets up to 4, masters 3, challenger 2).

Note, these are ideas that I just pulled out of my ass.

Honestly , smurfing and boosting would probably dominate the lower elos at this rate, while higher up, it'll become a question of who has better communication and synergy, rather than individual strength. Only time will tell at this point.

My opinion though: it looks like a disaster, smells like a disaster, and feels like a disaster. It's probably a disaster, but I could care less living the silver life.

Sojs2 votes

{quoted}

I have a friend in Masters and he apparently played against the full roster of CLG. They won... hell no obviously lost :P

At lower elos, the skill levels (or the lack thereof) can somewhat compensate for the 5v1+1+3 or etc. Once it gets to a higher elo where there's less players and skill becomes around even, every little advantage would matter. There needs to be a rule to make sure that this elo's still climbable without being ganged up by pre-made 5s.

Potential changes would be staggering lp gain based on number of people (30% less with premade 5, 20% at premade 4, etc.). Another would be to prevent pre-made 5s at higher elos and limit them as the tier goes up (diamond gets up to 4, masters 3, challenger 2).

Note, these are ideas that I just pulled out of my ass.

Honestly , smurfing and boosting would probably dominate the lower elos at this rate, while higher up, it'll become a question of who has better communication and synergy, rather than individual strength. Only time will tell at this point.

My opinion though: it looks like a disaster, smells like a disaster, and feels like a disaster. It's probably a disaster, but I could care less living the silver life.

It's not a bad thing being stomped by pro teams you get to look at the exact point it snowballed from and realize that is one area you're weak so it helps you improve

It should be about who has better communication and synergy individual skill is a complete joke and shouldn't be the deciding factor in a 5v5 RTS game

WykiLoki1 votes

Eh, true. I mean, I prefer teamplay too and value it over constantly trying to show superiority via 1v5 every single chance you get -cough- toxicyasuo -cough-.

Putting that snippet aside, I agree with the synergy part as well as the communication. My fear is that the new pentaq would make it harder for solo people to climb (than god riot's changing it so that they match 5s with 5s etc more). There's a way to climb with your teammates, and a way to climb solo; the style and increased opportunities are too different.

Also, although going up against extremely good opponents who play league all day together is a good learning experience, it shouldn't be the common experience. It's not just CLG that can do this. Think random groups of challenger "friends", smurfs in high diamond and masters, boosters and smurfs at lower elos.

I'm probably over exaggerating, but with patience, master-challenger players and their smurfs can easily dominate their tiers if they only did premade 5s. Going up against a pre-made 5 smurf squad in lower elo's just make it frustrating (not that it wasn't in the first place, just an extra added factor now).

Again, only time will tell. Might just be screaming out "THERE'S A FIRE!" when there's only a match. Won't stop me from trying to predict stuffs ._.

Spoofghoul1 votes

You could already play with friends,

We have TT for 3 player S5 for 5 man teams And soloq if you are alone or with 2

Only time you could not play a ranked match with friends is if you were a 4 man premade. And even then playing a normal can be fun too.

I really don't get this change for me it will be then end of soloQ ill never play it again might aswell just stick to ranked 5s and otherwise play normals who cares about ranked anyway with this kind of 4 man premade bullshit

Battalion1 votes

1.) Solo Queue Challenger Pride. Before, if you were up in the Challenger Ladder, everyone knows you’re GOOD AT PLAYING LEAGUE OF LEGENDS, there was no questions asked, now the pride of being in a challenger “SOLO QUEUE” ladder will be somewhat questionable. Even the better players know that having a “challenger solo queue” is still different than being in “challenger 5s”

This is entirely irrelevant as the majority of the League of Legends community will never see the bottom end of** Gold**. Let alone Challenger. I could go into a Bronze match or a Silver match, against a pre-made team and I guarantee that I would still maintain my average KDA and win-rates. The reason people are in the rankings they are now is due to mechanics and communication. You improve communication but that means nothing when your mechanics are literally as pathetic as watching a cave-man bang two rocks together trying to make water.

2.) In the past, these guys who have played solo queue and climbed up the ladder obviously had to give up playing with their in “real life friends” to get better at league, most of their friends are not in the same bracket as them and they had to play alone, or maybe with a ‘duo partner’.

These guys are going to get hit the most, even though they’ve proven that they’re really good players, if they didn’t make a good amount of friends in their elo bracket, playing alone will make it really tough for them.

My "real life friends" do play League of Legends. They are everything from Unranked to Silver and Platinum to Diamond. This has nothing to do with the system, more over how you deal with your personal life outside of the game which is NOT a reflection on a specific queue mode.

3.) Coordination and Synergy: when you’re all solo queue-ing or have a duo queue and you’re up against 5 man premade, the coordination and synergy that they have is just way better than just typing and pinging, this will basically make the game highly in favor to those who have 5 – man premade and have been practising together for a really long time.

Refer to response #1

4.) League of Throws Some (or even most) games in solo queue in the past is all about league of throwing, you could have a feeder in lane [and if you don’t tilt and just let it be (which is what you’re supposed to be doing)), there is still a high chance of winning. League of legends right now is set up in a way that one bad teamfight can lose you the game and before, whichever team “threw harder” is the one that’ll lose the game, but with the dynamic queue, the team that are coordinated, have voice communication and have played for a really long time are less likely to throw their leads.

This is exactly what Dynamic Queue fixes. This entire reason is entirely irrelevant. Find friends to play with, or get mechanically better at the game. Refer to response #1.

5.) Wanting to make a team made of 5 people Now, with all of the upsides of having just 5 people queue in the dynamic queue ranked, everyone is going to want to make a 5s team, and the way ranked invites are set up is that you can invite someone as long as their only one tier below/above you. Diamond 1 people have friends in Plat 5 who are probably messaging them asking them to Dynamic Queue ranked with them and ask for carry which will cause the MMR problems that I will mention later on.

If you were in Diamond 1, would you really want to risk dropping down to Diamond 2 just because your Plat 5 friend wants to get to Plat 4? Beyond that there is also the fact that MMR will be arranged to the closest average possible. You might be 100 MMR different, but that's barely noticeable. AGAIN refer to response #1.

6.) Another problem that this ‘advantage’ creates is that, so what’s the point of having ranked 5s then? It’s very hard to set up a ranked 5s team before they released the dynamic queue, and now we’re supposed to try and find 3 – 4 people every game to play “dynamic” solo queue just so we can have the ‘advantage’.

Ranked fives is a team that is static it has a fixed roster with a fixed amount of roster changes. Dynamic Queue of five people has constantly changing varribles. A Gold III Ranked 5's might have a Platinum 1 in it, while your Bronze-Gold Dynamic Queue will rarely contain anything above Gold if at all.

7.) Duo vs 5-man Premade This can happen as long as the MMR of the 5-man premade is lower than those who are in a team with just a duo queue. I played a game wherein we had 3 individual players and me and my duo who are playing in their preferred roles we are all masters tier and we went up against a full team called “-----“ which is a challenger 5s team. Their solo queue is around low master – high diamond.

The thing about league is that effective team play beats everything, and even if we were individually better than them, they are able to tower dive perfectly, set up the ganks perfectly, call for teleports faster and all these other things that would make it easier for them to win.

8.) Duo Queueing was the best way to win (before) and it was easy to find a Duo Queue partner. Having a really good duo bot lane and trying to carry the game with that roaming support and trusting that the fed adc will win 1 vs 2 was pretty nice. Or a solo lane / jungle synergy who set up the ganks properly and roams around the map together was pretty good too. Now you can’t even duo queue anymore and only have those preferred roles because if one person puts “support/bot” the other person can’t put “support/bot” because “your team must cover a wider variety of roles before queue-ing up”

These aren't even unique reasons anymore, they are just more niche cases of your other extremely redundant "points".

Let me tell you how Dynamic Queue actually works.

1) You take power away from the trolls who "Mid or Feed" by using a premade who already has carry positions covered. Who really says "Support or Feed?" Honestly?

**2) You lower the probability of getting that one troll if you pre-made with 4 or two trolls with pre-made 3 team. **

These first two are in a direct response from the community bitching since inception of ranked of "Trolls" "Feeders" "Those who don't communicate" etc etc! Now you all are bitching even more that these have been resolved!

3. You get the role(s) you want instead of the roll you didn't want!

_AGAIN! The direct response to the community's bitching. _

So stop complaining about your issues being resolved. It makes you look absolutely ridiculous to put it nicely. Honestly this community is so trash that I can't even put it into words concisely enough to be worth my time.

6KEMBE4ORBA3 votes

That's a really naive way of thinking + it shows some lack of understanding high concepts gamewise + the real issues behind D. Queue.

You're focusing on some personal mumbo jumbo and the "trolls hold me back" blame, which is/was an issue to players, hitting their ceiling and an excuse for "bad" players. We already have a "solution" for that - team ranked 5vs5. No trolls in your team. Done.

Duo Queue was enough of a problem.
A trio + of players can completely shutdown one particular enemy solo player and make him almost irrelevant. For example, 3 high silver/gold vs 1 low plat/dia.

Now, the games will turn into _"Find out which are the the solo players in the enemy team and abuse that to no end!". _ Oh, don't forget dear solo player - have fun!

Also --- who, in his right state of mind, would want to play with a 4 random premade group - that will strip him from the mere possibility of making calls or having his influence ingame close to zero?

How do you measure and compare the performance and skill of 100% solo player, with the performance of a player that has grouped/voice comm/pre-built strategy/synergy with his premades of 2/3/4 in all his ranked games ??? :)

Battalion1 votes

That's a really naive way of thinking + it shows some lack of understanding high concepts gamewise + the real issues behind D. Queue.

Thanks for starting off strong and respectfully (sarcasm).

You're focusing on some personal mumbo jumbo and the "trolls hold me back" blame, which is/was an issue to players, hitting their ceiling and an excuse for "bad" players. We already have a "solution" for that - team ranked 5vs5. No trolls in your team. Done.

Ranked Teams 5v5 meant you had to play with the same 5-8 people whenever they were on and whenever they had time. How many 5v5 teams did you actually ever work out for more than twenty-thirty games? Most teams die out before they even get ranked. This allows the average player get some of his friends into a ranked match and just have at it. It might not always be that same friend and the way that everyone is complaining apparently the majority of the league of legends community has no friends at all, maybe one for every ten, but I'm starting to understand why now.

Duo Queue was enough of a problem. A trio + of players can completely shutdown one particular enemy solo player and make him almost irrelevant. For example, 3 high silver/gold vs 1 low plat/dia.

The difference in skill between a Low plat and a low diamond is the difference between a low bronze and a high gold, don't believe me? Look it up for yourself. The chances of you ever getting three golds and a diamond on the opposite side would mean his team would be comprised mostly of bronze. Also this would be a solitary case as the majority of League of Legends doesn't know a Diamond, let alone a Diamond that would play ranked with them in a pre-made.

Also --- who, in his right state of mind, would want to play with a 4 random premade group - that will strip him from the mere possibility of making calls or having his influence ingame close to zero?

Everyone goes back to this. If you are wanting to make good calls, make the calls, be respectful, and chances are if things work out the pre-made will appreciate it and follow you again. Unless your assuming everyone in League of Legends is a thirteen year-old crying at every chance they get, which this thread proves anyway, so in a way me even suggesting someone of being respectful is setting myself up for failure.

How do you measure and compare the performance and skill of 100% solo player, with the performance of a player that has grouped/voice comm/pre-built strategy/synergy with his premades of 2/3/4 in all his ranked games ??? :)

Because this a team game and your rank should be determined on :

  1. Mechanics
  2. Communication
  3. Game knowledge

None of which are impacted by you not being in a pre-made, simply because being the one person solo in a 4-premade game doesn't disable your ability to ping/use chat, or god for bid ask the pre-made to join a CV session.

6KEMBE4ORBA2 votes

You're falling into some semantics/details.

  • A team in LoL consist of 5 players - if you complain about trolls in your team, you have the opportunity to play without any trolls. You have the means.

  • I meant a coordinated trio/even duo can effectively shutdown a more skilled player.

A bot premade with voice comm/synergy/pre-built strategy will always (90%) beat the enemy bot lane that aren't premades. (excluding external factors)

Your answer how to measure/compare 100% solo player to one using d. groups is so wrong. (hint: you can't)

None of which are impacted by you not being in a pre-made, simply because being the one person solo in a 4-premade game doesn't disable your ability to ping/use chat, or god for bid ask the pre-made to join a CV session.

Yea, cause a person that goes specifically into the game/group with the mindset to play with his friends will be open to that. In what world are you living exactly? :D

But all those things ----> are NOT the major problems with Dynamic Queue. The system is fundamentally flawed.

I will give you an example: What happens when one player from a 4 d. premade goes and plays alone? The moment he does that, HIS MMR IS NO LONGER EVEN REMOTELY ACCURATE.

"Consider two players who both reach Gold 1 rating. Player A only ever plays alone. Player B always plays as part of his 5 man group. According to Riot the matchmaking should ensure Player A only plays with other solo players/small groups whilst Player B nearly always plays vs other 5s or large groups . 95% working system, remember?

Player A can pretty much never be matched against Player B. The entire population of players they play against is different."

Thus THE RANKED LADDERS should be entirely separate. You can't rank those 2 players on the same ladder.

Kąi1 votes

you're a pleb. everyone in high elo have the same issues / relatable issues to what i posted. https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/4155ng/riotlyte_in_the_next_hour_were_making_3_changes/ after all you're just gold v so you'll never understand.

Battalion1 votes

I know I'm not a high Elo, but neither is the majority of League of Legends, but don't let me stop your Q.Q fest. 80% of League of Legend is so mechanically bad at this game, me included, that you can carry yourself out of Bronze or Silver even if they are pre-made of 5.

EDIT: Also you link only proves my previous point and this one? Thanks? 5% of matches being mis-matched wrong? Oh no this system is so flawed!

P4uru1 votes

Hey man. This is very off topic, but I saw you play in a game with qt check around the 37 min mark for your plays.

http://www.twitch.tv/imaqtpie/v/45438214

BluePolarizer1 votes

Just a question: what if your ability to climb is based on decisionmaking and strategy as a jungle/support main and get dumped into a 3/4 person premade who don't want to listen to you even if you are right?

Then you are screwed.

Another concern: a gold 5 can duo with a plat 1. Together they achieve plat 5 then the plat 1 player goes solo and gets back to plat 1. Do you think that this gold 5 player can ever play alone? Is he a plat 5 player for reals?

The Lexer1 votes

This is a much better reasoning than the "I'm mad because I got my secondary role that I chose but don't want to play" excuses.

You're right. I've tried to stress this, but without much success. Skill level is no longer correct (or semi-correct) anymore. People can play ONE champion and likely get to at least diamond if they're good.

ElysMustache2 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Lexer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eKXYd8oE,comment-id=0030,timestamp=2016-01-16T04:03:50.716+0000) People can play ONE champion and likely get to at least diamond if they're good.

Disagree. They may get to play their high-skill champion more often, but the same can be said of their opponent. So that effect cancels.

Diamond isn't equal to a certain skill value. It is a skill value that is relative to other players.

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