Boards›Gameplay

Let's talk about Pantheon...

Zeliwin·11/28/2014, 11:01:19 PM·1 votes·1,083 views

Let's talk about Pantheon, I've recently had a game against him. His spears are a strong harass tool, his stun and heart seeker provide really good engage and damage. So I don't understand why we need to give him this "block" to proc to basically deny any melee top any counter play to his long range good AD ratio damage dealing spears.

His block is a bit absurd, I've seen him block attacks 3-4 times in a single 8 second period. As Fiora, I've seen him turret dive me, I attack he takes turret damage, I ult on him he runs away from turret. And when my ultimate stops, he has yet another proc on his block. He literally just blocked the turret once, and me twice within a 5 second window.... I think a simple fix for this would be as follows "Pantheon blocks can not proc more then once in a 10 second period) It would add counter play to him instead of just accepting endless spears with nothing you can do about it. It would make him have to be more thoughtful about how he wants to use his blocks, but also not nerf him into nothingness.

Thoughts? Should we put Pantheon block on a timer where it can't be proced more then once in a time window?

EDIT:: I think Pantheon is balanced and his entire kit is fine, I just think his block offers 90% of champions playing against him very little to no counter-play. It's almost impossible to trade with him unless you have target clicking ranged abilities as well.

12 Comments

TeemoJenkins11/28/2014, 11:04:38 PM1 votes

Fiora's kit is actually countered really hard by Pantheon. I don't think it's that Pantheon is OP, I think that he's just built very well to respond to anything Fiora can throw at him. There are other champs that Pantheon can do virtually nothing about. I think he's in a good place right now.

Zeliwin11/28/2014, 11:09:18 PM1 votes

Not saying he is OP, but even when not playing Fiora, his block can be pretty excessive. As I said, I've seen it proc 3/4 times within a very short period.

Zeliwin11/28/2014, 11:11:43 PM1 votes

In my opinion it's an ability that offers zero counter play as it pretty much stands. It's unpredictable. I don't know any counter play for it, only when I play Darius or something I'll try to do an auto attack before my Q, to get the proc off. But even then, sometimes the block procs back up so fast it turns the tides of the battle. I just feel it's a very very forgiving passive, that no body has any control over.

I am THE Darius11/28/2014, 11:37:34 PM1 votes

He's an early game champion that doesn't scale well unless super fed and in team fights his block is usually wasted in said teamfights. He is designed to duel and snowball his lane or others if jungling. The reason why he is strong early is because in lane most laners get ahead of him at level 6 because they have an ult and he doesn't and by that I mean he cant really use his ult on you while in a fight and it's easy to knock him out of it. If he doesn't get fed he falls of like a rock over a cliff when he reaches mid game. Just play passively against him and let the game drag out and you'll beat him just by outscaling him.

Also that passive change could kill him. He builds up prcs by using his AA's and Q and E and gets a full proc with W. Note that he needs 4 stacks to get a shield proc not including his W (the shield bash). if he has 3 stacks and then W's you for a full shield it will stop stacking until his his shield is down which allows him to get 2 shield procs off one right after another. All he has is his early game and if you nerf that it screws him over.

Zeliwin11/29/2014, 1:49:21 AM1 votes

I assure you, he doesn't have only an early game. He scales well all throughout the game. His blocks offers zzeeerrooooo counter play, which I think is anti-fun. He counters 90% of top lane champions who hopelessly wait on their turret just to get dived and die. I think currently, his block proc is unpredictable and it does not allow his opponent to strategist on how to shut him down.

Every champion should ALWAYS be on an equal footing with each other. One champion should not just simple shut down another champion. Their always has to be counter play and a way to get ahead. Currently Pantheon shuts down a lot of top lane champions. Their is literally nothing they can do but try to farm at turret. That isn't acceptable, every champion should always be on equal footing on early levels, everyone should have a chance to shut down there opponent.

And I'm not directing that only at pantheon, a lot of champions simply shut down others with zero counter play. Not right. And it's very anti-fun. If 2 level 6 champions go after another all with zero kills and zero gold, they should be on equal footing. Skill should be the determining factor, but that is not the case with most of these champions and needs to be looked into.

EDIT: I think putting his block on a short timer before proc'ing again is a way to add counter-play without gutting him. even a 5 second timer should suffice. It would allow other summoners to say "Alright, He wasted his block on taking that turret shot, now is my chance to get him!" It would offer pantheon more choices on how to engage, and opponents more choices on how to engage. It be a lot more thinking into him deciding on how to use his block. Not just it randomly popping up 3 times in a 5-8 second window.... That essential blocks 500-700 damage early game. Which is a lot.

Droogzy11/29/2014, 1:58:48 AM1 votes

And there lies your problem, your assumption that any champion at level 6 with zero kills and zero gold should have a fair chance to kill each other. It doesn't work like that. Nor quite frankly do I think should it every work like that. It creates an incredibly mundane environment. Some champions are going to destroy other champions by virtually of hard counters in the way their kit is designed against another champion's kit, in your case you found out the hard way, Fiora gets completely wrecked by Pantheon. But if Pantheon was to try and play against Maokai? Garen? He gets trucked pretty hard.

He's an early game champion whom, if doesn't get fed, falls off hard. His scaling is not that great.

Zeliwin11/29/2014, 3:00:25 AM1 votes

Your misunderstanding me, I agree with counter picks, but a counter pick shouldn't be automatically losing with that champion with nothing you can do skill wise to win.

oh you wanna die11/29/2014, 4:55:16 PM1 votes

this just in, pantheon is the hardest fiora counter in the game, what else is new.

fiora can be challenger, pantheon can be bronze 5, fiora cannot beat pantheon 1v1.

get over it.

Zeliwin11/29/2014, 5:25:10 PM1 votes

What, you mean his 3 second low mana cost spear? Please tell me how a melee top champion can effectively trade with him. I want to know one, besides maybe Ryze. He shuts down to many champions in tops and offers zero counter-play, you can't deny that.

Dagenfel1/28/2015, 5:16:52 PM1 votes

are you kidding me pantheon is so many hungry its not funny. u say his spear throw(q) cost nothing it cost 45 mana and he only has like 300 mana to start with and if he doesnt build a mana item at lvl 18 he only has 600 mana. there are plenty of characters that counter him. u just are not usiing that character. riven counters him if she plays right all she ahs to do is bunnyhop to get shield when he tosses his spear and after like 7 spear tosses he is oom allowing her to farm creeps. if pantheon pounces her she jsut has to knock him up hit him then hop away and wen he throws spear shield hop. mundo counters him with the knife throw and no mana cost along with high healing. garen can counter him with high defence and health regen. a well playe champion that can build a shield early game can counter him just by shielding at right time. its not hard to counter him u just are playing a champion pantheon counters. boo who he has a spear through that eats his mana if used to much. soooooo many champs have 1 range move or gap closer and they dont even have mana so they can do it as much as they want. not only that his attack speed is extremely low now so once he pounces u he blocks a total of 4 times b4 a huge cd comes in and thats if its a experienced panth player that knows how to build his blocks up and how to use his kit to max potential. most panth players get 2 blocks b4 they have a cd time which at that point can easly lose a fight with no attackspeed. its all about how u play champs ive seen fioras beat panth down in lane just to passive plays and making him waste his mana on spear chucks. ulting him at perfect time and then parry his aa. panth actually needs a small buff to his attackspeed right now tbh but his kit is perfectly fine how it is.