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The concept of Draven is broken at a design level...

Unreformed Shaco·12/7/2017, 10:42:47 AM·10 votes·4,428 views

No matter what items ADC 1 has, draven will ALWAYS hit at least twice as hard, because of his Q.

If he drops his axe (Which is pretty fucking hard since they go where you are moving to), 1 of 2 things happen.

A. He pressers Q and returns to his double damage. B. He drops down to regular 100% damage. Now he is equal to other picks.

Usually champs with hard hitting abilities hit slowly by default, to even out the total dps. Harder hits, but less frequent..

NOT IN DRAVENS CASE, He gets attack speed built in, with permanent uptime!

So in a situation with same items, no matter what said items are,

Draven will ALWAYS hit harder than you, and will easily keep up in Attack speed.

He will win every trade he takes, and will outrun most targets he peruses.

Not to mention if he gets even slightly ahead, his free gold passive lets him snowball out of control.

"Huur duur just CC him" applies to literally every fucking champion in the game, so it hardly counts as Draven specific counterplay.

His axes need a wind up time, so he is punished for dropping them. First throw after activating is 20%, with +20% damage added for each successive bounce to his current cap.

19 Comments

LostFr0st12/7/2017, 10:58:36 AM5 votes

"Huur duur just CC him" applies to literally every fucking champion in the game, so it hardly counts as Draven specific counterplay.

Draven literally tells you where he'll be ahead of time. He's way easier to cc than other champs due to that.

If he drops his axe (Which is pretty fucking hard since they go where you are moving to)

Please go play some Draven. Try him out a bit. Between kiting and Wing and csing and accounting for the enemy's future actions the axes are hard to catch if someone isn't very confident in their Draven.
Sure, they can catch them, but they lose a crap-ton of damage during the hesitation time.

NOT IN DRAVENS CASE, He gets attack speed built in, with permanent uptime!

No, he really doesn't. If he keeps spamming W on refresh he'll quickly go oom. The refresh is also contingent on him catching the axe which he telegraphs to the opponent. Slow him after he Ws and he pretty much loses the axe.

Due to all of the above, I respect a well-played Draven.

Kullprìt12/7/2017, 11:48:39 AM3 votes

As oppressive as Draven can be in lane there is a reason his overall winrate doesn't reflect what the OP is saying, he is a bully through and through. He wins by showing off his dominance early and beating the enemy into submission. Also like bullies, when put in a situation where too many people get involved they tend to lose their menace and be ineffective teammates.

Wtf Draven can't be a good teammate?!? Of course he can PLAY like one, but his kit often denies it, as there are very few champs that truly synergize with him outside of a 2v2 situation.

The point here is that when too many people get involved it completely screws with his kit. When you have 5 people that can see you telegraph every move and your teammates can cause you to miss skill shots or be unable to position yourself to pick up axes AND you have almost zero ability to deal with enemies that dive you...well we have all seen it before. I can count the times on one hand I've seen a Draven player win with less than 5 deaths, and they were all very quick games.

Also I will point out that Draven's animation art and effects are flashy and it is always easy to pick him out of a crowd even in the most chaotic teamfights, most other adcs besides Varus don't have this type of issue.

k wìx12/7/2017, 1:38:41 PM2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Unreformed Shaco,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eErlR0m4,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-12-07T10:42:47.345+0000)

"Huur duur just CC him" applies to literally every fucking champion in the game, so it hardly counts as Draven specific counterplay.

I just wanted to point out that certain characters are weaker to CC than others, So i think this argument is dead wrong. Hitting a squishy adc with CC so you can burst him is completely different than trying to CC an initiator style tank. Sure, you can delay his actions - but he's probably still going to perform all of his actions after the CC wears off, and he can survive that initial burst BECAUSE he is a tank.

So CC is naturally more effective the squishier a target is.

Furthermore, a targets effective range/mobility also plays into it. Your Ezreal for example is naturally harder to CC because of all of his jukes. Your going to spend a LOT more CC trying to catch him as opposed to someone like Draven, who has very telegraphed animations. you know exactly where he's going to be. Take it a step further and look at someone like Xerath or Ziggs - very hard to hit them with CC because of how far they typically are from you.

Red Wreckage12/7/2017, 11:41:15 AM2 votes

he also has a passive that offers no offensive/defensive stats directly at all. and is like heavily cut down in value if he dies

PrismalDawn12/7/2017, 10:45:42 AM1 votes

item 3047 WOW HE'S USELESS

item 3076 WOW HE KILLS HIMSELF NOW

LMFAO! item 3123

GabeERen6/5/2019, 2:53:21 PM1 votes

I think this post is kinda stupid.there are alot of champions that can beat draven by just farming until 6 and then fighting like tristana not to mention draven has no escapes and 1 cc ability where tristana has her rocket jump that resets on kill or assist but draven is also a hard 2 master champ and has a weak late game if not fed early

Schenix12/7/2017, 11:18:50 AM1 votes

He has to play aggressive and forward to be useful, which leaves him susceptible to getting cc'd and killed more than other adc's. While Draven also likes to, his kiting increases based on attack speed, the axes won't drop at a max W stack run so it needs the autos to do it before the margin gap runs out. Kiting backwards isn't a full step, it's a half step so you can still catch him without an E. Not to mention, it goes where he is clicking if he clicks fast enough to direct the axes -- that's a lot of micromanagement.

The uptime is relatively good as the game goes on, but the mana cost of Draven using W and Q more than 2 or 3 times drains the bar quickly. In teamfights as you spam just W and the second Q, you find the mana bar is running low.

He does win trades, yes. His design is tons of damage. But he is not "average" when dropping his axes. He feels awful without them and the abilities are below average as well. The W cannot be activated again and does little without them, and the E is basically minimal cc. His ult does deal a respectable amount of damage however. Supports tend to be the best counter to Draven, and it's easy to counterpick. How effective you are at the champion is another issue.

The most toxic part about Draven is the passive. He is not truly feast or famine, but feast or farm. Famine is any ADC who dies constantly. Draven can farm and cash in much later can sling ahead of an ADC with a kill or two on them. Additionally, if he was oppressive before, then if he gets a kill he basically can rule the lane if competent. The passive needs to be changed from gold. However at the same time, he has no passive at late game.

The champion is fine really, just needs a passive change. Only other thing I could suggest is the first hit on an enemy champion with Q is reduced by 10% to slow down his harass in lane if that issue was becoming prevalent. Other than that which isn't necessary, just the passive change.

Boosty Magoo12/7/2017, 11:55:22 AM1 votes

I have beaten Draven plenty of times, but I DO think when he gets like 2 or 3 kills early, it is pretty crazy.

Any time you come back to lane behind in level, and items, it sucks, but vs a Draven, it feels impossible.

It is almost GG at 5 min.

Alex h872112/7/2017, 6:09:28 PM1 votes

I don't play that much adc and have only had that much trouble w/ a draven when they were already fed. But i have a friend whose an ADC main and he almost always bans draven.

From what I can see draven has 2 issues that feed on each other to make People hate him.

  1. If A draven is catching his axes (mostly has 2 spinning axes ready) his early damage is a lot higher than other adcs, and is loaded into targeted autos rather than a skillshot.

Which leads into the other problem, His passive- Draven's passive w/ the extra gold allows him to snowball much harder than other adcs (except maybe klepto ezreal right now), b/c if he's catching his axes to stack up his passive then gets a kill he can get a bunch more gold.

So draven lane, he's catching his axes poking the enemy w/ Q empowered AAs when possible (chunking them heavily due to bonus damage), then gets a kill getting ~100 extra gold, pushes the wave into the turret and backs (if the kill is on the adc the lane snowballs even harder), then he comes back to lane w/ more exp and WAY more gold than the enemy adc and will basically force them under turret for the rest of the lane phase, and god forbid he has a leona support b/c then draven/leona will just repeatedly dive the enemy botlane til they hate life.

TLDR- I think draven's high damage earlygame w/ Q in combination w/ his passive that helps him snowball hard are what make him oppressive in lane (if hes a good draven player), Imo one solution could be to reduce Q's base damages but increase its scaling so that it would still synergize with the extra gold from his passive if he gets a kill, but it wouldn't be AS easy to get that kill b/c His Q empowered auto's wouldn't be dealing double what another ADC's auto deals.