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How much skill can be learned? How much is innate?

ComeOnAndSlamJam·4/26/2016, 5:21:20 PM·11 votes·1,552 views

I have an IRL friend who is high challenger and routinely turns down offers from pro teams. I won't name him here, as I don't know if he'd like that.

I've asked him for tips before and he gives me an answer that amounts to "idk, play better?". He's not being a condescending jerk, he's just literally on such a higher level of gameplay that he can't really give a more specific reccomendation. He may also not necessarily know why he's better, as I suspect a good deal of it is just innate. He was high diamond after his first placements ever, like a week after hitting level 30 and pretty much climbed more or less undefeated.

I've spectated his games and it doesn't look like anything special.

I played a custom game with him on my team. I was bronze 5 at the time. The next best person was Plat 5 and on the enemy team. There were also two gold players on the enemy team.

Mr. Challenger picked Jayce and was AFK for the first 10 mins, because a package came to his apartment. He came back underleveled and missing his first tower in the top lane.

The game ended about 20 mins later. He had 48 kills and one death and basically won the game completely on his own.

How much of that can be learned? How much are you just born with?

Thoughts?

22 Comments

Hullabaloo9074/26/2016, 5:29:13 PM5 votes

I think a lot of innate, but that really doesnt matter. i will never be challenger, and probably never get beyond gold, if i even get to gold. I literally do not have the hand eye coordination/visual spacial awareness to get past a certain point. This doesnt stop me from challenging myself to improve, because the challenge is the reason i play the game.

Maximum Morde4/26/2016, 6:10:09 PM4 votes

Talent is innate, proficiency is learned. Break down skill into those two categories.

Weathered4/26/2016, 5:32:59 PM3 votes

First of all, you're really lucky to have a friend that high of an ELO just to talk to, even if he doesn't give that much advice.

The reason he did so well during the game he played with you (as Jayce) is because he constantly is playing with higher ELO players, so when he plays with low ELO players, their mistakes are A LOT more obvious to him than to you. Because he sees those mistakes so clearly, he just has to take advantage of them and boom he's fed as f. Now, its not that easy, but thats a big part of that scenario.

Regarding him being in Diamond so quickly and naturally climbing, that is probably a combination of innate and learning. Some people are amazing at learning things quickly. I'm not going to say I deserve a higher ELO than I am, but personally I can pick up a champion and go 16/2/8 my first or second game if I enjoy the champion. Also, your friend may have played something like Dota or Starcraft before playing League. The APM (actions per minute) he has is probably a big factor too if he played really click intensive games before.

Multitasking. I'm pretty sure multitasking is one of the biggest reasons people climb or are in high ELO. If they can do it well, they are set. You have to watch farm, watch your opponent, watch other lanes for MIA's, watch your own lane's cooldowns, watch the minimap for the jungler, watch for when your enemy wards, watch for what the other team is building, watch for where the other team isn't, watch for where YOU are, watch for where your mouse is, watch buff and objective timers, watch for minion wave push. Some people are better at it than others.

Edit: So this is getting downvotes. Can someone reply as to why.

Restless Slumber4/26/2016, 5:48:52 PM2 votes

I'm going to first off say that well done to your friend. Secondly, I think that if you want to get better at the game and want your friend's help, then you should play normals with him and try to learn from those games. I would also suggest watching your games over to see your mistakes as well as his games to see where he doesn't make mistakes. If his games seem not to different from yours, then you're looking at them wrong. One thing that I can surely tell you is there is a great difference between low elo games and high elo games.

Personally, I hit plat this season after starting right after Ekko was released last season. I was placed in silver and have greatly improved since then. The way that I improved the most was by watching Dekar173 on YouTube and Twitch. He was previously a Rengar main and is now a Riven main. Even though these weren't and aren't my mains, I learned from his macro-play and made my own playstyle simalar to his. I would greatly suggest watching this player to learn. Currently on his streams he is smurfing and playing dynamic queue with subs and donators to teach them the game.

Steel Blossom4/26/2016, 6:04:13 PM2 votes

This game is kind of like a sport in that you kind of develop an instinct to do things like hitting and dodging skillshots. That comes with time. Also, they know where to be and what to do.

My Sea Cow4/26/2016, 5:33:46 PM2 votes

A lot can be innate BUT that doesn't mean that you can't learn to be that good. If your reflexes are good and judgement you can climb too. Some people are naturally better at things then others. For those that aren't, you just got to make a list of the things that you're not doing bad or not doing, and improve them one at a time and you'll slowly get better

Sire Hippington4/27/2016, 2:15:46 AM1 votes

There goes a saying that one generally needs about 10000 hours to become "proffesional" at something(which still isn't anywhere near 'mastered' and perfection is a lie) So actually, most comes from learning, just like in prettymuch anything. However, if your naturally talented, you need much less learning to achive the same.

Proplayers are not only proplayers because they are naturally talented(wich they most likely are) but also because they spent 8+ houers a day on improving in lol, haveing coaches that help them improve, especially on the macro play. The main difference between top tier pro teams and the "bad"(thos that most likely won't quallify for worlds) pro teams is not that their individuell players are much better, but that their macroplay is better which usually relies on a good coaching stuff and team synergie.

Also, for most sports there are the physicall capacities which are mostly bound to age and generall fitness. In lol, this comes to some extend to how fast you are with your fingers to perform combos, but mostly to reaction times. Also, hand-eye coordination for precise clicking aswell as 'awareness' so you notice that nida spear comeing in from the flank in time. The physical skills are harder to 'learn' and as mentioned also tied to age. With 40 years, you simply have slower reactions than with 20.

LadyRenly4/27/2016, 2:26:44 AM1 votes

no matter how much i practice, i will never make silver 5, and some ppl will crash out, burn and hit rock bottom at plat 5. everyone is just different

Dangerzown4/27/2016, 3:55:55 AM1 votes

A lot of it is innate. Sure, practice will make you better but someone with this innate skill and who practices is much better than an average guy who only practices.

FrostyDog4/26/2016, 6:57:55 PM1 votes

Innate ability only gets you so far that has been my experience with sports, I mean like, I had a friend who was super talented but because I worked harder and practiced harder over time I surpassed him. I am not good in League at all peaking at Silver 4 last season, which means that I need to work harder to compensate for lack of natural talent. Really it comes down to how much time you spend on the game and how much you spend with a main champion to get better. Playing only a single champion can help you climb really easily because after a certain amount of games you will have amassed supreme knowledge with a champion so you have learned auto attack speed cool downs ex cetera so you can focus on other things you would not otherwise. So let's say you main Annie and you get so comfortable you can CS in your sleep so now that's one less thing to worry about. It's a check list if you will, after you check more stuff off you can focus on your game as a whole.

Power Cosmic4/26/2016, 8:55:08 PM1 votes

To me the game has a lot to do with how and what you think, which can mostly be learned. It doesn't matter if you can click or aim quickly, if you can't recognize the situation and/or opportunity. The more you are aware of in game, the easier the mechanics are; because you can see and anticipate all types of situations. Real sports are more innate as you can only be so fast or dexterous.

Br4ndon4/26/2016, 9:19:05 PM1 votes

You need 3 things to rank up mechanical skill, game knowledge and good decision making. All 3 can be learned and can honed. They rely on eachother so lacking in 1 will cause the rest to fail. So i believe you can learn to be great at the game if you take the time and hone your skills.

Edit: Forgot to include you also need a bit of luck...

NANÏ4/26/2016, 9:22:57 PM1 votes

It just depends on the strategy he is thinking about

Furthermore, higher elo players click over 2000 times per match

They don't make as much mistakes usually

Duke Anax4/26/2016, 9:33:48 PM1 votes

LoL is the first moba I played and also pretty much the first "fast paced" game I played seriously. I'm slowly improving but it takes a long while.

Some of my friends that had more experience and more practice picked up LoL pretty much emediately.

I don't know about your friends innate abbility, but maybe he just learned a lot about playing such a game before starting to play this game.