Real concern about Spellshield from a 1mil+ mastery Nocturne player

I am Razgriz·10/23/2019, 6:43:27 AM·44 votes·13,750 views

Hi, you can see my name, so no need to introduce myself.

Over the past 2 years I've been largely concerned about the viability of spellshield in this game.

On the surface others may have seen that spellshield has been "nerfed" or "bugfixed" to not block things. Most times, it's alright. Not not blocking 2 things if both things hit in the same instance. Next to impossible, I assure you, but hey, they're not wrong.

But I'm not really here for that. I'm here because there has been a systemic nerfing of the ability over time that has largely gone unnoticed. Possibly unintentional and I'm not faulting anyone for that if it has. In fact, I doubt any one has even thought about spellshield. Times past I got to talk to Rioters who I shared concerns with, that they echoed, that Nocturne needed work and that spellshield was interesting and that also it had a certain burden of skill to be used.

Exhibit A: Evelynn rework. Once upon a time, Nocturne countered her. Then she was reworked. You cannot shield her charm start, if you attempt to shield her charm proc, you cannot. You can block the spell she uses to try and proc it but the charm does not fall off and this is largely useless for blocking considering the nature of her Q, as the next press of it will proc the charm. (Note: If she charms and she attempts to auto attack you, you can block the charm, so it IS blockable. However, there is no reason for her to do this.) This is unlike other marks where they fall off if the triggering spell is blocked. I have reached out in the past to be met with silence. I am aware Ezreal's W acts the same. Diana's mark, for example, will be consumed.

Fiora's R is completely unblockable in every sense. I can understand not blocking vital procs but not being able to block the start-up isn't fair.

Blocking Lee Sin's R still roots you.

Blocking Bard's Q can still stun you if it connects with a wall or another target.

Spellshields block almost every on-attack spell. However, Nasus Q completely ignores spellshields despite the fact that it was specifically patched in the past (3.13) to be blocked by spellshields and never changed away from that. About 3 seasons ago spellshields stopped blocking it. On-attack spells have inconsistent behavior with spellshields. They will completely block Darius' W, even the basic attack damage of it. They will NOT block any portion of Mundo's E, but still provide Nocturne with attack speed, despite blocking nothing. Some spells deal the basic attack damage but are otherwise blocked and provide attack speed.

Illaoi is a can of worms where in some cases you can block her tentacles and sometimes you can't.

Spellshields still allow hit-confirm spells, including Illaoi's above mentioned R. It will still consider you a target for spawning additional tentacles but give you attack speed (likely because it blocks the damage portion of her R). Meanwhile it sometimes will or won't block her W depending on her range when casting it on you. Hecarim and Yasuo Q still gain stacks if you spellshield their abilities. Camille will gain her attack speed from E. You can also still pop Luden's and die from a spell you blocked. However, this is not consistent either. Darius' Q does not heal him if blocked. Wording is also inconsistent on tooltips, some say "hits" and some say "damages" and it doesn't seem to matter in regards to spellshields.

On that note, blocking Comet or Luden's sucks more than it helps as it often simply strips your shield for more important spells.

Sometimes spellshield will straight up not work. About 1% of the time. Personally, this has resulted in my death many times. I've very rarely used spellshield, had it bug out and not block something and say after that it didn't matter.

If Brand directly targets you with his R and you block it, the spell dies, but if it bounces to you and you block it, then it will continue bouncing if it would normally be allowed.

Draven's R return will deal full damage on the return hit if you block the first hit, most other spells remember if they should do damage falloff if you block. Ezreal's R did before it was recently changed to always do 100%.

In case you think I'm biased, Ekko's 3-hit is blocked, despite no other 3-hits in the game being blocked.

Karthus' W used to be blockable but at some point it stopped being able to be blocked. It makes no sense.

Zoe's E is bugged to strip spellshields when cast at you over terrain. Not hitting. Cast.

I think I've made my point but here is a comprehensive list of EVERY spellshield interaction in the game that League's bughunters (Vandiril, Caenen, Anatabakka, and others in that group) made with some significant help from me: https://ethercalc.org/spellshields

There's definitely some other feelsbad spells in that list and other broken interactions.

On top of all this, spellshield on a melee diving champion... It's not like Sivir who has the luxury of seeing projectiles travel to her. Most projectiles have to be predicted. A lot of spells come to you at once, too. You can intend to block one spell but have it stripped by another spell because it hit you .01 seconds earlier. Frame perfect timing is nigh impossible and this game isn't balanced around that (See: Ryze, Fiora).

I'm not explicitly looking for balance changes, but I would like some of these terrible interactions fixed and the feelsbad interactions made more consciously aware of.

If I were to suggest anything, I'd rather Nocturne's spellshield reduced by .25 seconds and the first .25 seconds grants full spell immunity and proccing the buff from any spell blocked. If spells are blocked in the first .25 it removes itself when the .25 is over. In addition, and only since I am here talking about it, AS as a reward incentivizes early usage of the spellshield which is pretty awful. In the future I'd like to see a buff that is equally powerful no matter what point of the fight it is used. My personal preference is spell reflection (a 60~100% by rank), but a moderate damage spell is also reasonable.

Please consider this.

16 Comments

CØulrophobia10/23/2019, 4:51:55 PM11 votes

Good high-quality post that is understandable, concise, and well written? And it is logical instead of a rant? Where did I stumble upon? This couldn't possibly be the Boards, could it?

But seriously, this post was great. Hopefully, Riot responds to this one. I hate having to check lol wiki every time I want to see what abilities are blocked by a spell shield. You are 100% right it should be like a pre-emptive cleanse instead of acting as it does now.

ßlameMyADC10/23/2019, 4:44:14 PM5 votes

As someone who's downed a few games as Nocturne JGL myself. Yes. The spellshield is supposed to block the next "ability" according to it's description.

Not keystones, not runes, not AAs, anything that some champion has uses cuz his summoner pressed Q, W, E or R, perhaps even their passive.

The things blocked and not blocked OR even worse partially blocked (CC ignored, damage still applied) is so god damn inconsistent on Nocturne. The time window to cast his spellshield isn't all too high. It should block any enemy ability coming in. No more, no less.

SarienFates10/23/2019, 10:28:03 AM4 votes

Honestly, as a Nocturne Top main myself, I agree entirely, spell shields, or at least Nocturne's, are becoming less and less viable in competitive play. Many abilities, such as the ones you mentioned and others, such as Volibear and Singed's knock-ups still root you if you use your shield, making the point of the shield mostly useless. There are also things that aren't spells that get blocked, such as ANY attacks from the dragons, or Heralds charge/swing attack, even though they aren't spells. Spell shields are incredibly inconsistent, as not many champions have them, but each champion that does has it in a different form. Fiora's is an entire shield, that actually does stop ALL spells, while Sivir's and Nocturne's don't, Sivir's costs no mana, but blocking spells regens her mana, but Nocturne's costs half his mana, grants a mediocre attack speed boost, and does not even fully block anything. When Nocturne gets reworked, I hope they fix his flaws without ruining what we have in him now; I love Nocturne, and I've recently used him to solo-carry several ranked games, Nocturne is an amazing champion, and seeing him being mostly shafted aside from the occasional skin (Elderwood is sick btw), it honestly hurts, I want to see Nocturne be improved.Nocturne item 3070 item 3070

Morgan le Fey10/23/2019, 7:40:20 PM3 votes

Yeah, I've been screwing around with the new Edge of Night on PBE and spellshields are weird AF. There's so many random things that proc them (Noc's R1? really?) and so many random things that bypass them (like many but not all secondary effects). This isn't just a Nocturne thing - spellshields need a full pass to make them more consistent and feel better.

Corvega10/23/2019, 6:26:29 PM2 votes

The champ just needs to be reworked. Riot needs to decide to make him more of a diver or just go all in on being an assassin.

ExplodingFist6610/24/2019, 1:15:35 AM2 votes

Applies to Sivir as well

MartialArtsForY10/24/2019, 2:54:38 AM2 votes

Quick question, how would you rework nocturn? Like both gameplay and ability wise?

Niggel Wessom10/23/2019, 6:28:10 PM2 votes

Noc getting reworked soon

Troll Slaiyer10/23/2019, 11:58:56 PM1 votes

the spellshield should block all spells for 1 or 2seconds that get thrown at u instead of just 1 spell. ludens aoe can pop it... would be fair, since there are champs like sylas n shit running around and noc is underwhelming.

Resent10/24/2019, 8:00:21 PM1 votes

I also want to take this moment to say that spell shields should COMPLETELY block spells AND their effects associated with hitting them.

Currently, even if you spell shield a spell, the enemy effects still occur. For example: Darius still gets healing if he Q's you; Cassiopeia still gets move speed from Q, and healing from E.

Nøctμrne10/23/2019, 7:27:09 PM1 votes

As a fellow Nocturne main, I have had the same concerns for such a long time. Nocturne's spell shield is no longer as strong as it once was, and his kit is undoutebly lacking in all aspects compared to current champions.

lovealert10/23/2019, 8:05:11 PM1 votes

It's a good post but I dont know about the Evelynn portion, I understand it is just an example of how hes inconsistent but when she uses any ability against nocturnes spell shield the reason her charm is not off him is because she has used her empowered ability. Her pressing Q and pretty much missing it to spell shield will weaken her remaining 3 attacks from Q, if she uses her E on you, her empowered E falls off.

Nocturne verse evelynn is a very fair match up, if anything a good nocturne is capable of defeating an Evelynn EASILY. Nocturne being able to block her ability and the charm or just the charm would make her absolutely useless and would be flat out stupid. Just my opinion and im sure any other person could agree if you played Evelynn.

AquariusGine10/23/2019, 9:26:50 PM1 votes

I hope they rework Nocturne, I love his visuals but his gameplay feels a bit unsatisfying.