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Here's some math for all of you people saying that Mana-pools and Meditation will be insanely high:

Timely Voidling·4/9/2016, 3:29:53 PM·43 votes·4,346 views

Average Mana per Mage-Champions at level 18 is 1000--1300, with a few here and there that break 1400 and then Kassadin and Janna sitting at the top with 1500.

Will only give 400 Mana now after 10 minutes of stacking. Gives 1000 at max stacks, so 7-10 minutes of stacking based on the champion using it. Will give 400 the moment you upgrade it.

So all together the average Mage champion who will be buying these items just to afford to use their spells will reach a Mana-pool of around 2800--3100 at max-level with 3 full items, so exactly the same as right now since ROA gives us 800 Mana after 10 minutes.

So for those that are saying that Meditation is going to be buffed significantly by this change: If a Mage runs completely dry and maxes out the power of Meditation they'll reach up to a bonus of 42--46.5 Mana per five seconds at max-level with 3 full items, and that bonus will steadily decrease with every % of Mana the Mage gets back. And guess what? With no other Mana-Regen stats in your entire build that equals dick all in terms of Mana.

So I'll say it again: once a Mage inevitably runs out of Mana, since the only way for them to push and clear waves is to use their spells, they're screwed because they have no way to get it back other than tanking enemy damage.

60 Comments

Dataless4/9/2016, 4:38:18 PM10 votes

If Mages are supposed to build mana now rather than regen, it's possible their base regen values might get buffed to compensate if they are struggling. Remember a LOT of Mages are getting reworked at the same time this is happening, and we haven't seen those numbers yet. While it's OK to speculate based on the information we have on the PBE so far, we should also remember we're only looking at half the picture.

Strawberrycocoa4/10/2016, 4:43:58 AM7 votes

I don't at all understand why ENCOURAGING PEOPLE to eat enemy damage in order to replenish their mana was ever a good idea.

Voluug134/9/2016, 10:12:36 PM5 votes

And guess what? With no other Mana-Regen stats in your entire build that equals dick all in terms of Mana.

But but some dicks are really big right?

So I'll say it again: once a Mage inevitably runs out of Mana, since the only way for them to push and clear waves is to use their spells, they're screwed because they have no way to get it back other than tanking enemy damage.

Yeah, at the en of the day, they are trying to somewhat invert the entire mana paradigm into some kind of underpowered type of energy... but not really increasing early mana management, while A LOT of AP mages of all kinds are centered around lategame.

This is going to break a few champions and destroy several others.

Rito, you are forgetting your principle of the ''minimal interversion''. This change will turn the table so much it will make some champions so crazily underpowered since, for years, Riot has been pumping out mages whose entire kits are built around having 1-2 mana regen items, or 1regen + 1flat, and then playing the spam game. Velkoz Syndra Lux Azir Karma Orianna Viktor Zyra Zilean

The only ones that get to buy flat mana are the ones with mana regain mechanics Kassadin Swain Karthus Malzahar , those that scale with it Ryze or those that need gigantical mana pools Anivia Cassiopeia Zilean .

Everyone else is screwed earlygame, and lategame. Riot dosnt want AP champions to carry games, they only want tanks, AD casters, ADCs and supports. Way better for the LC$.

Meep Man4/9/2016, 3:50:40 PM5 votes

And this is why this is all in testing my friend. I thibk Morrello should provide about 600 mana from 400 and Rod of Ages should give 15 per charge from 10. Also, I don't think you included the new Hextech items with this.

DarkRitual4/9/2016, 8:57:19 PM3 votes

Maybe buy one mana regen item? Instead of Morellos/Athene's being the mana regen item, it's going to be something else. Both Athene's and Morellos don't give great offensive stats, but are built because they give decent AP while also providing Mana Regen. Mages already had to lower their Max AP in builds for those regen items.

Builds will adapt, but Mages will be far from unplayable. The amount of change that will end up optimal is currently unknown, untill we see how the items have changed when they hit live. Most people are overeacting a bit, but such a huge change to builds of many mages can cause these reactions quite easily.

Tobias Brackner4/10/2016, 6:24:09 AM3 votes

Not gonna lie, things need to be pretty crazy for me to run out of mana when I'm a mage. It would need constant teamfights and skirmishes. For the most part I'm able to space things out between fights and not really need to recall for the sake of mana alone.

ModKnightsKemplar4/9/2016, 6:52:04 PM3 votes

Or they could back...

Which I realize is an unpopular solution, but I don't see why that can't be a weakness of the class. Many classes have weaknesses.

Death by Kayn4/10/2016, 2:51:16 AM2 votes

My brotha

TwinkiePro4/10/2016, 5:12:42 AM2 votes

You forget tear reduces mana cost by 25% percent, which essentially increases your mana pool by that much. Build these items on xerath and he will literally never run out of mana, allowing him to seige all day with more health and better sustain then before.

alfavhunter4/10/2016, 8:41:48 AM1 votes

Change meditation to not taking damage for 5 seconds from an enemy champion causes you to gain .5/.75/1/1.25/1.5 of your total mana as mana regen per 5 . This value is doubled when out of combat