Old Riot balance team vs New Riot balance team. #Shojin

Twilit Angel·5/7/2019, 10:07:04 AM·105 votes·18,811 views

Old Riot: We're removing the silence from these assassins, so you can have a chance to respond.

New Riot: We made this item. Oh? It's making a few champions have infinite dashes and stuns? It's fine. Let's put it on live servers and watch people be mad at us. LOL!

Seriously... imo... Balance team needs to make better decisions. Cooldowns exist for a reason. If we wanted to play without them we'll play URF when it is up. And just because win rate exists, don't give that as an excuse. It is not fun to play against that item. The counterplay feels like... don't be anywhere near that champion with it... or use a team with chain stuns till they die. Playing with it is fun, but for me, it doesn't feel right to play like that outside URF. It doesn't feel fair. Thoughts?

52 Comments

Cptn Han SoloQ5/7/2019, 10:24:52 AM40 votes

You are right in the sense that spear of Shojin is one of their big mistakes. Challenging existing boundaries by questioning them is ok, just throwing them out the window isn't. The game is currently not balanced, you either abuse what is ungodly strong or put your team behind from the get go. We are at a point where u need more games on mages to make them work then u need on Riven, which is supposed to take super long to take up properly. They want their lcs bigplays and that is it, what the playerbase thinks doesn't matter and if they get to loud just pull random Data out of thin air [as far as we can tell] and tell them that makes it ok. Also skins, they forget it with a shiney new luxskin coming.

iTaLenTZ5/7/2019, 5:26:39 PM26 votes

Morello > Meddler any day

Cdore5/7/2019, 2:26:37 PM22 votes

URF destroyed this game. Riot saw how successful it was and integrated aspects of it into their normal game. Less mana costs, less cooldowns (this is the only time in Leeg history where I've seen max cdr and 45% cdr, I remember when cdr was a luxury).

SomeOneButNoOne5/7/2019, 10:20:38 PM17 votes

The greatest mistake of Riot's balancing team is that the skill is no longer present in this game. Now don't get me wrong, there is a huge difference between a diamond & a silver player. But at the same time, in the golden time of league, you could beat the worse player with anything. Wich isn't the case anymore. Now champion affects your chances to win, more then your actual skill level.

I remember the times when I was smurfing in silver and playing AD soraka jungle, and winning. Now picking AD soraka jungle would lose you the game in the champ select - just because the champion isn't overpowered enough.

I remember when in laning phase, there was actual poking-trading, weaving in autoattacks to wittle down the opponent. Now that's more like: Hit 1 poke ability. All in next time. Profit.

It's completely r%%%%%ed what this game has become. And they're looking to force it into tank meta again, with mini-Malphite rework where he still keeps his "no-counterplay" ultimate (Flash isn't counterplay btw, as it's a 5minute cd vs a 1minute cd) And even though I do understand that some champions have lower skill cellings, champions that do land skillshots, etc should be rewarded for it. LS continuously says "Play Annie and you will climb" And he is completely correct. Because you may not know how to even grasp the concept of laning phase, but you can just keep all-inning level 6 onwards and in most cases, unless you're vs an Artillery mage, you most likely win.

Darius is like that in Toplane. You have 5 bleed stacks. If you get 5 stacks, you're dead/outtraded heavily. Except he has a pull. And an autoreset. And a slow. It's like "There is counterplay!" but then his kit enables him to outtrade you almost automatically, even if he does miss the Q the E, the W slow is quite enough to completely screw you over if the trade takes longer then 2 seconds.

Some serious overhaul on the game & the runes needs to be done. On the pages of completely trashing this new system, and actually returning the players choice instead of making it completely dumbed down. Also keystones, they're all completely fucked up if you compare them to the masteries that we used to have before, it's literaly r%%%%%ed how broken this system is.

Reworks? Basicly - "Play this champion x times have a freebie unless you're mechanicaly impaired." Every. Single. Rework. Was. Completely. Broken. With. Literaly. No. Exception.

And honestly, the reason I truly loved this game was that skill mattered above all. Ap soraka toplane? Sure, if you're better then your opponent - you will win. AD soraka jungle? Hell yea buddy, banana them to death with your 15% attackspeed runes.

Now? Now that's dead. The solution? Actually hiring people who have played the game, and know what they're doing/talking about. Not taking any opinions from both the players or the developers who haven't reached d+ (in this season, d2+ since d3/4 are pretty much old Plat).

The entire game is complete and utter garbage, with so little skill expression (except for a few champs, who do have skill expression, except their skill expression is "You play me perfectly and you auto-win, enemies can only exploit your own mistakes and that's balance & counterplay hehe hoping on the fuck up of the player hehe".

I've never been more done with this game in my life. And to the Dev team - I sincirely hope Morello comes back someday, and bites CertainlyT's head off, and throws him in the trashcan for his balancing failiures. "But, but, Yasuo, Akali, etc are so FUN TO PLAY!"

Doesn't matter when they're either going to be worthless & in the gutter, or completely overtuned because that dipshit shouldn't design a Font, let alone a champion or their kits. All in all, shit game, I rate 3/10 since skill no longer exists, and champions are what defines your win condition more then the individual player skill.

SirHydro5/8/2019, 2:44:12 AM13 votes

Removing the Spear would require Riot to admit they messed up.

And we all know how good Riot's track record is at admiting their own mistakes and manning up. They rarely ever do, and it takes years for them to admit they messed up, and in the end they will still blame the players for it and take no responsibility. And then release 3 new skin lines. Across 2 patches.

YaraUwU5/7/2019, 1:15:17 PM10 votes

I remember saying at one point that summoners rift is going to become Urf with all the damage and shit going on. item 3161 is just one step closer i guess. To bad old eve q got killed.

hewhodoesnotcare5/7/2019, 2:04:59 PM10 votes

balance team will nerf everything around it before nerfing the damn thing (champions also)

Haiya Georgie5/8/2019, 6:40:38 AM7 votes

Riot doesn't actually care about the game or game balance. They don't care to make the game competitively viable or fun to play. Their top priority is milking their user base for everything they have. That's why only the popular champions get skins. When you're trying to make money, any publicity is good publicity.

Since Riot are incapable of making a legitimately good game. Yes. I said incapable and not doesn't want to because Riot couldn't make a good game if their lives depended on it. The next best thing is creating a skinner box, getting people addicted to the game and then introducing really terrible designs. These terrible designs get the community in an uproar and all of the outlets like D-OMEGALUL-T Esports get to advertise their game for them. Then, when they revert the dumb decisions, they get to pretend like they're the saviors who've stepped in an listened to the community.

It's this kind of shill enterprise and blatant disrespect for the gaming community is why my name is what it is and I sincerely hope that Riot Tryndamoron doesn't wake up.

Sorostaran5/7/2019, 7:39:43 PM7 votes

So we have a item 3161 dev who wants URF as a permanent game mode.

Kha'Zix and Zed are never around to provide cleaning service when you need it.

[zombie-nunu-bummed]

Sõna5/7/2019, 10:58:34 PM5 votes

Maybe it's not balance team's problem themselves, but their leader's decision making, and instruction coming from Tencent. To cater China newbie players. So skin will sell.

Thingamajig5/7/2019, 11:18:43 AM3 votes

old riot balance team

here are 2 items that can be built on any champion and effectively make them immortal oh it's boring? here is a new item that can be built on these champions that doesn't change the above issue but it just reinforces it oh it's still boring? well here is a 4th item that can do the same

oh morde is face tanking 2 turrets and 5 players for 1 minute? he is actually healing from the enemy adc? thats fine 5 tanks teams could just group mid and end while the enemy team goes oom or straight suicides from thornmails? i guess thats fun

here is an item that amplifies your damage dealt and is a % hp nuke oh any champ with a single ap scaling can build it and 1 shot anyone that doesn't exclusively build mr and health? great stuff

here is an item which you can buy 5 times and be the most effective strategy? amazing

shit yo i can continue till tomorrow

Serika Zero5/7/2019, 6:39:14 PM3 votes

boards in general: OMG RITO DAMAGE IS TO HIGH Riot: we are introducing a new items, so that fighters and divers won't build full assassins and one shot you in the blink of an eye. Here, the amazing item item 3161

boards: OMFG RITO, FIGHTERS AND DIVERS ARE STILL KILLING US, HOW DARE THEY? IT TAKES THEM 3+ SECONDS TO KILL US, HOW DARE THEY!!!!!!!

boards in general: OMG RITO DAMGE IS TO HIGH Riot: alright fam, we will look into nerfing damage runes Riot slightly nerfing damage runes boards: OMFG RITO, HAVE YOU SEEN KLEPTOMANCY, THAT SHIT IS SOOOOO TOXIC. ALSO RITO HAVE YOU SEEN GLACIAL AGUMENT? HOW DARE AHRI TAKE THAT KEYSTONE, SOOOOO BROKEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NERFFFFFFFFFFF!!!!!!! OHHHHHHHH OHHHHHHHHHH AND HAVE YOU SEEN THAT SHIT KEYSTONE THAT PEOPLE TAKE IN ORDER TO GET A LOT OF ARMOR AND MR?????????? NEFT THAT TOO1111!!!!!!!!!!!!!11!!!!!!!!

My point: you guys en large will never be content and will always heavily complain about something. If not damge to high, then cc to high. If there's to much snowball, you complain there's to much snowball. If there's to little snowball, you complain that you have no impact in your games, and that when you play it feels like a coinflip regarding who wins or loses. If you kill someone in lane multiple times and they come back, you complain that they managed to come back. If you get killed multiple times in lane, you complain that you can't do anything and that's unfair that the game is over if you only died two times.

Like, yes, there's a bunch of different members on boards. But at the same time, there's a bunch of threads that are contradictory with each other (as well as a bunch of different view points that contractic each other) and I've seen many players hold more than two of those together.

The only thing in common that your threads have is: riot sucks. But honestly, looking at your demands, its impossible for riot to not "suck", as what you demand is not something that is feasible. Its like a country making a law: everyone now, at the age of 10 will receive an unicorn or dragon, their choice. Good luck finding a dragon or unicorn irl.

Likewise with you guys here, you want to many things that contradict themselves. Also, its not like this game was amazing balls seasons ago either. Just a slight reminder: season 3 kassadin had like 80% + ban rate due to how broken it was. Riot balance team didn't necessarily gone bad the past seasons. Its the community that started to have more and more and more contradictory demands.

Queefing Beauty5/9/2019, 1:11:34 AM2 votes

hmmmm

ValiantKiller5/8/2019, 4:10:15 AM2 votes

What is balance team ? Where to buy balance team

Schoenberg5/8/2019, 6:04:58 AM2 votes

Careful... We might get a new balance team and given the current trend.......

woodvsmurph5/8/2019, 9:30:46 PM2 votes

To be fair, 45%cdr riven has nearly same cd's with or without shojin.

Jax and renekton are much more visibly affected by this item existing. Now I would argue that renekton needed something to help him out as without this item he was a bit too underpowered compared with other champs due largely to being so ability-dependent and having longer cd's than most. With the item though, he can go a bit too far in some of the patches and stuff like jax is just 100% abomination with it. The better thing to do would be removal of item and simply lower the cd's of renekton's kit a bit to be more on-par with Riven since both are largely ability-driven.

A lot of people hate on adc's especially the likes of late game crit adc's and vayne. And I honestly believe this is rightly so because it's been a long while since armor/tankiness had any impact vs them even when they've built no armor pen. Vayne obvious exception, but her w true damage is a bit too high especially with rageblade in the game. They can kite out most melee much too easily due to actually having higher movespeed when they've gotten their crit items - meaning melee's have to hope to 1-shot or they just get melted before they can use abilities to actually catch the adc if they failed to 100-0 them. And the adc is meanwhile healing up most of their hp while killing off their opponent almost as quickly as a burst mage.

Now before you go crying adc hater (well you've honestly probably already done so and stopped reading, but I can try), I would say that shojin kinda makes champs like renekton or jax do that exact thing in mid game fights. So next time an adc main goes complaining about a jax or renekton or riven jumping in and being able to "braindead 1v9", just remember that you essentially do the same thing in the later portion of midgame and beyond. So I would think and hope that both sides having been able to now experience the frustration the other party feels... maybe they'd stop crying for the gutting of the other person's role while simultaneously asking for their own champ/role to be buffed to ridiculous levels. Instead maybe fight for balance for all parties. Not to be stupid op like the current approach is, but to be fixed so they do the job they were intended to do.

Bruisers are fairly tanky and have moderate burst or dps capable of frontlining and diving enemy backlines to set up picks with the help of teammates or create space for their team by zoning away key enemy carries. But they don't have 1-shot potential unless fed and spec'ing extra into damage at cost of some of their durabiliity. They can spec extra into durability and become noticeably more durable, but at the cost of some of their damage. Similarly, they can spec overly into damage and/or sustain, but at the cost of some durability - enough that if they do get caught out and bursted by opponents who are nearly full build, they can be deleted like the squishy they are. If the enemy team lacks burst though, then they might be able to out-sustain much of the dps directed at them for a good chunk of time before they die.

Adc's down't machine gun down everything in sight, but they do offer consistent dps to both soften up targets for their teammates to finish off with burst or vice versa - finishing off low hp enemies that teammates have softened up for them. Many are capable of kiting out opponents if they carefully use their abilities and/or get help of their teammates, but they don't have the base movespeed to eternally kite opponents without even having to use a dash, condemn, or 90 caliber net to create space. They are item-dependent and scale very well in most cases - with their value increasing as game length goes on provided they can stay alive to get off their dps. But they need the correct itemization that counters their opponents builds - i.e. you probably need something stronger than a ghostblade or just pure crit to cut down a malphite. Otherwise it should just be him standing there smacking you for laughable damage which you sustain up via lifesteal while he tanks your full crit plus lifesteal like it's a feather trying to stab through dragon scales.

FSRER5/8/2019, 12:50:08 PM2 votes

Old Riot balance team: We are nerfing Evelynn because a stealth assassin should not be able to kill people fast or effectively.

New Riot balance team: We reworked Evelynn because her kit was out of date. Oh, also we added tons of damage to every ability of hers and we also added a aexecute ultimate. Oh she also has a charm. Oh she also has increased health regen in jungle because she gets low from doing 1 monster camps. Have fun!

DuskDaUmbreon5/9/2019, 12:51:54 PM1 votes

Thoughts? My thoughts are that it's still common fucking knowledge that SoS isn't an item you really get on Riven, so why the fuck do people keep bringing it up on her?

Jax, sure. Renekton, maybe. Riven? Not really. It's only good on her if it's her first or second item, and she generally needs BC first and always DD second. Riven buying SoS and actually doing well with it is about as likely as Ashe doing the same with Zhonya's.

Tahminatrix 5/7/2019, 10:18:37 PM1 votes

Old riot: Lets make TahmKench as a niche toplane / support who can protect teammates from misplays or key abilities, it will balance out since group fights tend to be about more than 1 character or 1 ability or 1 misplay.

New riot: LETS GUT THIS CHAMPION`S W, HES TOO STRONG IN OUR NEW PERFECT META WHERE YOU MUST STAY 3 SCREENS AWAY FROM THESE HYPER MOBILE CHAMPIONS OR DIE HORRIBLY AND YOUR TEAM WONT HAVE ENOUGH DAMAGE TO WIN WITHOUT YOU.

Ackelope5/8/2019, 1:01:56 AM1 votes

oh man, what a great point you're illustrating by providing us two isolated examples of balance changes that have occurred! this example of one team doing something you liked, and this other team doing something you didn't like clearly proves that the first team was good, and the current team is bad!

look, I don't necessarily disagree with you, both teams have had hits and misses, but regardless of what point you're trying to prove, this method of using examples doesn't feel like it really proves what you're trying to say very convincingly.

U R Good At Game5/8/2019, 12:55:40 PM1 votes

Spear of shojin isn't OP because 2 champions are abusing it lol. Most of the people who build spear now had 47% or lower win rates previously.

Ironmad5/9/2019, 5:16:41 AM1 votes

If Spear of Shojin would've exicted in the early seasons it would've cost something like 8000 gold. The item is already realy good without the passives.

If Riot won't admit it needs hard nerf atleast make equal items for tank's and mages.