What do you like about Karma? (Discussion)

IxtaliKing·9/29/2017, 6:19:17 AM·7 votes·1,038 views

I'm usually quite a harsh critic of Karma's rework, but at this point I'm sure we've all heard enough about its failures. The original Karma had great rework potential, and I strongly believe if Riot were to have given her a VGU now, we'd be looking at a vastly different and much better champion all round. However, what's done is done and we must go forward.

From a gameplay perspective, there are a few things I think her rework did for the better: (These points refer to Karm's rework prior to 5.10)

  • Support-like basic abilities /w Magey Mantras: I believe this is described by some as being an "unleash mage", and is viewed as bland by many. Though in my opinion, the idea itself was good, the execution just could have been better. Losing duality and essentially "karma" itself as core themes sucked, but if we're working with enlightenment (and twin dragons?) as a core theme, her reworked Mantra made sense. I like that her base kit had everything necessary for a modern "peeling" support, but with her Q and her Mantras keeping her identity as a solo lane utility mage.

  • Movement speed on the shield: This change in my opinion, was the best. Having the MS on her shield instead of the tether gave her a lot more agency, and made for a very satisfying basic ability. I know there are people out there like who preferred the MS to be on the tether, but to those people I'd say; you would miss being able to clutch dodge skill shots with that self casted E. I think a tether that grants MS to the caster particularly makes sense for a Juggernaut, design wise.

  • Healing tether: Aside from the tank favouring scalings and the fact that she only heal herself, I think tether was a good place for the heal. I like the way RW allows her to bait and take creative risks in combat with her E, and I really enjoyed the bonus damage it had at the time. I think thematically it would have done her justice to be able to cast this spell on an ally, and for her rework it would have made her a lot more recognisable as "Karma".

  • A skill-check passive: So while I'm really not here for Gathering Fire as an innate, I do like it for her Mantra. Up until 5.10 Gathering Fire served as a distinction between experienced players and non-experienced players, after its 5.10 buffs it lowered her skill floor (drastically) and subsequently became the silent underlying cause of all her balance issues. But yeah, great mechanic, though I do believe it would be best reverted to pre 5.10 values and stuck on her Mantra so she can have a more thematic innate passive.

  • Defiance: When it dealt damage it was my favourite spell, landing well placed shield bomb in a team fight, then cleaning up with RQ was the best feeling ever... it was rare, but awesome. It also gave her really nice synergy with melee carries as opposed to marksmen, which I thought would have been something worth encouraging even if just for the sake of diversity. The only thing which let this spell down was its pitiful 60 damage during lane phase, would have been better if it were telegraphed and had a brief delay or travel time so it could have had better early damage.

  • A fun nuke: Soul Flare was my 2nd favourite skill in the game (after her shield bomb). Nothing much to say about this ability other than I wish it was a ground targeted projectile so it could be better at closer ranges and easier to wave clear with in mid. Perhaps some of it's initial damage could be back loaded onto the second part of it too, for the sake of fairness/counter play.

What do you think the successes of Karma's rework were? (If any) Also, what would you like to see done when Riot works on her next year?

35 Comments

GrievousFetus9/29/2017, 6:20:43 AM2 votes

making the other team mad.

FireDrizzle9/29/2017, 6:35:48 AM2 votes

That she is rarely picked.

ZapMyHeart9/30/2017, 4:08:32 AM2 votes

Moving MS onto her shield was pretty good (except they forced too much utility into that and RE). Everything else was garbage.

AhhShucks9/30/2017, 8:51:36 PM2 votes

Original karma shield bomb was the most fun ability ever, and I want it back.

AgeOfTheMage9/29/2017, 2:50:48 PM2 votes

I like how many OPTIONS she has. you could ult W for sustain, ult Q for damage, etc. Tank karma is so much fun! also love how her abilities work, and how you can run around enemies as you tether them.

0 Hogapu9/29/2017, 3:34:44 PM2 votes

Versatility !

I used to play Karma mid full AP, no one ever knew I was going to kill him lvl 2, nor expect that RQ to oneshot them all. Playing a borderline pick has always excited me a lot

And of course, 45%cdr Karma tank top with item 3115....

I miss the ability to E creeps. That was something pretty cool I guess...

MisterShameless9/29/2017, 5:14:03 PM2 votes

What I love most about Karma when I first started playing and maining her back in season 3 was her flexibility ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) You could build her any way you wanted to because her build path was entirely open as long as you hit the 40% cdr mark and had a decent mana pool. Taking a lot of harass early on? Build a 10% cdr tank item item 3067 or item 3024, Enemy building MR? Build into Gunblade or Nathers Tooth item 3144 or item 1043, Need more AD on your team? Again build into Gunblade, Want more pushing power? Build item 3060, maybe even item 3512 if you want to be more tanky. As long as your mastery tree allowed you to play two different styles, you could switch between being great at offense or defense. Knowing that Karma falls off hard late game in damage, you can easily build damage at the start and build toward utility at mid to end game while softening the fall off Karma gets. However, that's all kinda gone to shit when Riot overbuffed her with too may bandages and nerf her to shit because of how badly they've managed her over the years. Now she is tied to too many items for her build to be even remotely flexabile. At most you have one item as an option that's viable instead of three in the old days.

Pisces StarChild9/29/2017, 10:13:13 PM2 votes

Hmm let's see...

What I like about current Karma

  • Mantra empowered effects for each spell provide unique effects in utility/damage, providing some level and form of strategy to her gameplay. Karma has to analyze a situation and decides which ability is best to empower in order to influence an outcome in her favor. Now granted the execution can be a bit better, with one option being ideal in almost every case, but I totally understand Riot's decision when they made this change. The positive aspect of this arrangement led to Karma being quite an adaptable and versatile fighter, a generalist on the battlefield, having tools to combat almost every different type of fighter/champion in league. She's an excellent teamfighter due to the nature of her kit.

  • She is a master at pulling off some surprising and unsuspecting feats, particularly in catching an enemy off guard or making quick getaways. Karma is perhaps one of the most slippery champs in the game at the moment, being able to outrun most of the champs thanks to her slows and haste. Don't underestimate her ability to catch up to you as well. The same tools that gets her to retreat safely can also get you to reconsider approaching her without any escape plan in handy. She can extend this feat to her allies thanks to her AoE shields and AoE zone that slows. Her self-heal and snare helps to increase her chances. This is what earned her the reputation of being a "b***h" as people are frustrated about her being quick and evasive.

  • She has good control and zoning capabilities. Karma can keep and maintain good distance from enemies if need be and can also close that gap with ease.

dreadnoughtus019/29/2017, 6:38:16 AM1 votes

Success?

I like the skill-check passive. It's fun and I like how low you can get your ult on low cd with some well-placed spells and aa's Soul-Flare is really nice, though I also liked her cone, because it's satisfying to land. But yeah, ground-targeted would be better.

The heal on tether I sort of like? It's fun on tank karma, feels bad on mage karma. Considering I rarely use RW in the roles I play (mid, supp) I'd prefer her utility tether. Maybe if they allowed you to heal your ally I'd be more ok with it.

That's it I think lol. I could live without the ms on shield honestly, prefer her shield-bomb and utility tether.

alekzu9/29/2017, 4:56:58 PM1 votes

I agree with almost everything you listed except the old extra dmg on RW. At lvl 2 you could RWQ+ignite and it meant that you either got first blood or flash from your enemy as well as forcing him to back. I am happy it was removed but I am unhappy with the extra root as well. It has no purpose. Instead of extra damage or root to the main target they can make the tether like the pre-relaunch Karma where enemies who pass trough it would get the dmg and root instead( probably halved for balance purposes ).