Urgot's issues lie with perception and feel, not "power"

WTBeGirl100EUhr·12/13/2019, 11:48:09 PM·5 votes·2,445 views

So, Conq got nerfed. People are complaining all over the boards that Urgot is terrible now. Thing is? Statistically just not true. Urgot has a solid winrate and his pickrate whilst low is not insignificantly so.

The thing is that Urgot is designed to play in short range as a ranged champion. When you play him you feel like he should have access to items like Steraks and if he could buy them you can bet that these are the items he would be building. But he can't. When it comes to it, people don't always want to have to go Black Cleaver, Frozen Mallet and Righteous Glory every game because these are the only items he can viably build. It feels so gimped to not have access to any of the traditional "ranged carry" items (due to restrictions on his W) but also to not be able to build any of the traditional "fighter/juggernaut" items like the Hydras and Steraks - BC aside.

So the question becomes what can be done to ease this very restrictive feeling when you play Urgot?

24 Comments

Urgasm12/14/2019, 2:04:42 AM6 votes

Urgot main here, he is more or less fine, its just every other champion you play against in toplane being slightly above average or op.

All i really want is mana cost revert on q and for e to cross terrain. And maybe slightly more movespeed so you can actually catch people without flashing and hoping you kill them before they run away.

When I first saw the rework I really expected his w to increase his movespeed not reduce it.

I feel like these changes wouldn't be much, seeing all the free healing, low mana costs or resourceless abilities that other champions have toplane.

Yets424012/14/2019, 12:21:34 AM5 votes

Let him count as melee, and boom, coqnueror nerfs don't gut him, and his itemization isn't pigeon-holed into literally just item 3071 1st, item 3047 /item 3111 2nd, item 3812 3rd, item 3800 4th, item 3075 /item 3065 5th, item 3156/item 3026 /item 3022 6th.

Raffyk12/14/2019, 1:27:23 AM3 votes

I find it interesting that you describe his issues as a matter of perception when you bring up objective issues with his current power level.

Firstly, while I cannot speak for every other Urgot main, and every other post, but I can say that both I and many other Urgot players I have spoken with aren't saying "Urgot is terrible now". I think you're using a bit of a strawman logical fallacy here by saying all of our issues are irrelevant due to Urgot still being a playable character without an abysmal win rate. As I said in my post that managed to get a bit of attention and controversy, the biggest problem was that Urgot's statistics just weren't warranted for a very heavy nerf. You cannot dispute that nerfing a champion's healing by half on the rune they take over 90% of the time is not a heavy nerf, especially on a slow Juggernaut without healing in their kit(Something Juggernauts NEED to have access to, as to counteract their weakness to CC and mobility). According to the very statistics you cite, Urgot's winrate has gone done nearly 1% in a very short period of time from 52.5% from before the nerf. As I mentioned in my previous post, Riot publishes what numbers they feel require a nerf for a champion at each elo, and at every single one Urgot was in line and not needing a nerf. So nerfing him was not fair or needed, especially when you consider that every other bruiser in the game did not receive that nerf, and continue to have higher win rates than Urgot, especially after the nerf (Looking at you, 55% win rate Mordekaiser).

The "restrictive feeling" you mention is not just a feeling, it is an objective problem on the champion that already gives him issues winning games, and is only amplified by the latest nerf. As you say, he is classified as a ranged champion, yet gets to both build nor play like a ranged champion, yet gets nerfed alongside all of the ranged champions, and cannot effectively itemize as well as other melee-characterized champions in his bruiser/juggernaut class. By nerfing conqueror on only him, and not for other melees, especially Juggernauts, even more tools have been taken away from the character while the competition gets access to more. The problem now is officially characterizing Urgot as a melee. As you, and I both have mentioned, Urgot does not play like a ranged character, and due to every aspect of his kit, he can't even itemize with ranged items. He plays as a melee champion because in reality, he is one. It's time to start balancing him around that fact and cut him from ranged classification, even if it means rebalancing him a bit with the ability to build things like Sterak's or Hydra. Why does every other Juggernaut in the game get to have more options, more tools, and more ways to play than Urgot, just because of his range that he doesn't even use because his kit is balanced around his melee range W/passive? Why does alongside that fact, Urgot get nerfed because a class of champions/items/playstyle he has no way of using or being like? It does not make sense, and it constantly hurts the champion, and this is the essence of what we the Urgot mains are taking issue with. No matter if the champion has a 100% win rate or a 0% win rate, this just doesn't make sense from a game design perspective. By making Urgot classified as a melee character, and balancing him a bit around that and what it enables him to build, not only would he be a better more balanced champion, but he would also not have to deal with nerfs that only hurt the champion instead of balancing him.

ModCaliCoastReplay12/14/2019, 1:59:40 AM2 votes

As an Urgot main I feel like he's absolutely fine.

I rarely played him on Conqueror which no doubt biases my position somewhat; I've nearly always played him either on Grasp or PTA, both of which remain amazing on him, and I encourage his mains to try those runes as a substitute for Conqueror post-nerfs.

I feel his build isn't even that restrictive, people just feel like it is. It's been some time since I've built item 3071 first; usually I go item 3812 these days. item 3181 feels pretty good on him too and gives him a viable option versus true tanks he didn't really have before. item 3078 remains a very underrated option on him as well in certain matchups, particularly against squishies and jungle assassins who don't expect the massive burst from a Spellblade-empowered leg hit.

I think if he gets access to item 3053 he may become overpowered - I won't complain if he gets it, but others might, because when Urgot is strong he gets very oppressive - particularly against melee champions that he can just dance around and kite down at will.

Garen is adopted12/14/2019, 1:33:05 AM1 votes

he have a 350 range if im not wrong so he would be considered range and without his W edit: that was also a reason why Rakan couldn't use relic shield before support item rework

ModCaliCoastReplay12/15/2019, 4:11:31 PM1 votes

The notion that Urgot should never build an item with attack speed, ever, because it doesn't synergize with his W, is one I'd definitely challenge, I'll put it that way.

He certainly shouldn't build a lot of it, but there are plenty of games where W is not his primary damage source because he wants to use his range to kite opponents with basic attacks and Q's instead of closing with them, and in those games a bit of extra attack speed feels great, at least to me.