60% win rate Rammus still not nerfed

No champion should be allowed to have that win rate. An Assassin mage and even ADC would be instantly gutted the moment they went past 54% win rate.

Rammus is a strong champion, but he isn't broken. He has very visible weaknesses, such as his lack of range. Against a team with good kiting, he can get beaten down before he can even be in range to do anything. Leblanc had only one weakness when her q silenced: you had to catch her completely off guard with hard cc, and then burst her down before that cc was gone.

Can you please provide something other than winrates to prov he's OP? Can we mention his pickrates which tend to indicate he's only picked into highly favorable conditions?

I'd be livid if a nerf went through at this point. Only thing that's changed is the new jungler item - ancient's golem which allowed Rammus to get out of the jungle and actually make plays on the map.

Nerfing Rammus this close to the end of the season with the jungle getting revamped might ruin him before we see how things settle in season 5. Remember the ONLY thing that has changed all season 4 for rammus was one jungle item that's not going to be around in a month.

Scratch that, the other changes were already a nerf to his e. Again caution at this point is warranted.

He is really powerful in high elo, he has an incredibly high pick rate in challenger. Although last I checked, his 60% winrate dropped back down to its usual 53-55%.

That said, most of what is making him good now is the adc meta and a lot of the current top/mid picks being easy to gank as rammus. What usually balances him out is that he has a very hard time keeping pace in a game if he can't get ganks to work, but a lot of players are adapting by building feral flare to overcome this weakness, so perhaps looking into the clearing power the madreds line provides could be appropriate.

"Winrates don't matter" -GD, blaming Riot for letting 46% Leblanc "dominate".

Niche pick that dominate when the environment for his niche is reached. High win rate, low pick rate

he probably will get nerfed. he just craps all over ADCs, and APs can't punish him enough due to his shield.

Think about it, he is the only hope left for tank jungler

hes far too binary, he either gets shit on by ap dominated comps(JK hes still retarded vs them but this is how its intended to work js) or he destroys ad dominated comps who cant EVER kill him or otherwise deal with him.

Right now hes a win-win, but even in his ideal lose-win scenario hed be stupid and niche.

Rammus is a strong champion. That being sad, he's one of the most easy enemies to counterjungle. That however requires him to be picked first.

And curious, where the heck did you get 60% That sounds like an exaggeration to me when checking sources like lolking / gg / etc.

Also remember, Riot isn't balancing for just one region. Much bigger threats dominate other regions like Fiddlesticks and Akali in Korea.

Why does he need to be nerfed though? Win rate doesn't mean anything. It just means that when he is picked by people he has a good chance of winning. If people can play him correctly and understand how to use him, especially since he is such an old champion, then whats wrong with him being played well and correctly?

Realize that win % is based on the number of people playing and what percentage of those people win their games.

Rammus has had a niche following for quite a while, as have other pocket champions like Fiora and Amumu. The reason these champions have such high windrates isn't necessarily because they are OP/Broken but because the small number of people who play them often, play them well and win a majority of their games.

Popular champions by comparison have much higher numbers of data that have to be filtered through. For instance, if you have 100 Caitlyns playing in a test, each Caitlyn win only counts 1% Whereas if you have only 25 Fiora's each win counts 4%. Its this disparity that keeps Riot from looking to win rates to determine whether a champion is too strong or not. Other things, such as Ban rates, or champions who have unusually high win rates for their pick rates, make for better balancing decisions, as those are the champions who by merits of some meta changes, or their own strengths outweighing their weaknesses too often, will cause friction that the community deems too much to handle

*cough cough Prework *

Haven't played recently, but I think I have something like 70% winrate on Rammus, and they weren't counterpicks or anything. I think the sheer stats on W and ult bases are most problematic It sucks to get taunted, but I don't think it's broken. I'm biased though.

Meh I don't think he is too strong.

Why are people still lying about his winrate? It hasn't been 60 for awhile. It is hovering between 53-55. Where it always was for like a year now.

ramus isn't the problem. it's the adc meta... ramus shits on adcs --> ramus' team wins

yet we nerfed leblanc and everything else that became "slightly strong" which didn't even reflect in their winrates yet you nerfed them and you let this stupid champion be.

Rammus has zero range, he has to get in the face of the enemy and stay there. Leblanc could flash silence flash, chain, flash, Q, flash, w, flash, and flash, flash and take zero damage. That is broken. A melee champion outplaying champs with high mobility, is not op.

Ok here is what i have to say after reading some of the most common points stated:

1. People saying that the new jungler item made him op. Well lets keep in perespective that he has had the highest or 2nd highest win rate on lolking and op.gg charts all season and that says alot. How can a champion top those charts across all elos? Win rates are a huge indication of a champion's performance, it means that percentage of games won with that champion, sure there might be some luck sometimes causing some champions to be at the top but when its that consistent across all elos, throughout the entire season, it means one thing, that when this champion is picked, the chance of winning that game is 60% and these are stats from all games from all elos. To be fair, though Leblanc was annoying to play against and overwhelming, her win rate remained low which meant she was still losing more games than average. That means on average she wasn't able to impact games enough to skew the chances in her team's favour, probably because she was hard to play and she falls off and gets outscaled by almost every other mid. The fact that Rammus has had a consistent high win rate all season suggests that the champion on average is winning about 10-15% more games than other champions. Thats ridiculous.

2. He probably wins alot of games because he is usually good and useful in all team comps. His early game is not bad at all, he is tanky enough with the right runes/masteries to clear and get a gank off. He is very good in 2v2 even early because of his taunt which makes the enemy champion useless for 3 seconds in a game where milliseconds decide life and death and where snowballing is an active game mechanic. If you take a look at top win rate champions, about 95% of the top 10 are similiar to Rammus in that they have heavy CC. Notable examples being Amumu, Fiddlesticks, Warwick, Malzahar, Wukong, Zyra. These type of point and click cc champions don't have a skill floor and can be played by pretty much anyone that has a brain and they can play the champion to almost its fullest potential because whats a rammus's job in a teamfight? To roll to the most fed enemy carry and taunt them for 3 seconds. Try to do that on Lee sin? You have to land a q, or ward jump, flash, get behind them and kick them into your team to achieve similiar results. Thats using Lee's ultimate, having amazing mechanics and is hard to pull off while all a rammus has to do is flash or roll to enemy champion and press taunt. The worst is that he remains unbelievably tanky and does decent amounts of damage and if you try to kite him as an adc, you will die or take huge damage from thornmail/bs or burn your combo as mid laner to maybe scrape of half his health. You shouldn't be able to be such a huge threat while being that tanky. It really removes "interaction" as Riot calls it because what can i do as a midlaner or adc being squishy and being taunted by a rammus who flashes for me or rolls at me at the speed of light and if my team focuses him we probably lose the teamfight since hes so tanky and can probably make it out alive. Ok so maybe you survive the taunt because you have good positioning and his team didn't follow up on you, You are around half health, trying to kite him, you will die from thornmail damage and if you are a mid laner, you likely can't burst him by yourself. His ult is aoe btw so he does damage to everyone else on your team too he also gets extra sunfire damage since hes so tanky.

3. QSS is not a very viable option for ap carries to defend themselves against him. So most of them will fall victim to him and he also counters ad carries so there isn't many options vs him.

Nerfs that would sort of fix him would be to reduce his damage dealing (sunfire/thornmail/ult) by reducing his taunt duration to about half of what it is.