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Just some things going on in the game right now regarding ADC

Shåwn·9/17/2017, 4:34:49 PM·51 votes·4,316 views

Hello everyone,

Since everybody is already crusading against ADCs and sometimes throwing out crazy exaggerations, while those defending ADCs also throwing out crazy exaggerations/blatantly denying whats going on; I thought id make a post with minimized personal opinions and instead just simply show some clips of whats actually happening so this way we wont have stupid arguments of whats possible or not possible (through the twitch.tv clipping system). I think everyone will get a kick out of these clips.

So first up we have a clip of the best zed player in NA (LL stylish) and the best(maybe) riven player in NA (Revenge) teaming up to take down 1 fed adc. This "fed" adc is actually only 7-2 but i suppose everyone will have their own opinion of what "fed" is.

https://clips.twitch.tv/BlushingCulturedChinchillaBabyRage Bonus clip : https://clips.twitch.tv/LovelyObedientTardigradeSoBayed

Couple things to note here: Re-watch when stylish engages the adc with his ult, stylish's hp drops so incredibly fast I had to rewatch it like 3 times. Even though he immediately swaps out with his pre-placed W, hes still lost 75% of his hp in literally a blink of an eye. Then you can see revenge of fiora just getting clicking down by a relatively stationary opponent. Dont say they "suck" or they "misplayed" as they are some of the best players out there and if it were me on zed there I probably would have died.

Next up we have a clip of Faker's stream where the twitch on his own team D/Cs or AFKs or something. But the cool thing is, while the twitch is AFK in the mid lane, the enemy syndra is not able to kill an AFK/disconnected twitch while the twitch's janna is healing/shielding him. Then the 2% hp twitch proceeds to kill a full hp Kayn again through the use of shields.

A really important detail is that I actually messed up the clip and I clipped too late so the first about 3-4 seconds of the twitch being afk near the syndra were actually cut out. So my bad for that just imagine that the twitch was face tanking for about another 3-4 seconds prior to the start of the clip.

Here it is : https://clips.twitch.tv/MildBigPhoneBuddhaBar

Next up we have Yassuo who I believe is the best yasuo player NA, decides to catch a poorly positioned twitch who is alone farming in a side lane. Yassuo is pretty fed with 13 kills but looks like twitch is a pretty fun champ!

https://clips.twitch.tv/HealthyAssiduousYogurtPJSalt

Now we have Bjergsen who is the best mid laner NA (imo) playing pre nerf taliyah and getting 60-0d by a twitch from 700+ range. Now the reason I chose this clip is because alot of people say twitch needs his full items to do stuff like this but in the clip you can see twitch only has ONE completed item and we can also see a little bit of salt from bjergsen :^) (for fair reason imo!).

https://clips.twitch.tv/DifficultDignifiedBearPeanutButterJellyTime

Next up we have a clip of one of the best draven players out there (which btw if you guys havent checked out his stream he has absurd talent and would destroy people even when draven was bad).

https://clips.twitch.tv/ArbitraryShyMousePastaThat

Hope everyone had fun watching. Apologize for those who were looking for even crazier clips with ardent censor involved. You guys can now decide if you think some of these plays are fair or acceptable. When champions of other classes (such as fed mages or fed asssasins) performed these feats, they were reworked or had their AP itemization destroyed. Should rylais have been toned down in the past for giving mages too much tankyness and dmg at the same time ? should ONLY adcs be allowed to have the power of tankyness and dmg output? Was it right to increase the burst window of leblanc to a minimum of ATLEAST 1.5 seconds (sometimes more) when the new mid laner corki is able to do it in under .8 seconds through the use of crit items?

Who knows

EDIT: I knew I should have put a FAQ or something.

"But the ADCs in the clips are fed?"

A: No shit, that is the point. We are comparing what X fed class can do vs what Y fed class could do in the past. Of course they are fed rofl. Ironically the difference is, even if they werent fed they would still be relevant.

"But the zed missplayed and didnt hit any Qs?"

A: Could have something to do with the fact that his HP dropped so quickly he panick swapped out THEN threw the Qs from out of range. Are you saying it would be better if he stayed in range and killed himself just to throw some Qs? Lots of challenger zeds in the chat im sure. What missplay did the fiora make? and most importanty, how do you missplay on corki?

"B-b-but that was zed jungle in one of the clips"

A: Enemy team has ezreal jungle... Along side corki mid and kalista bot. Would you prefer a clip of the samething happening to a khazix jungle?

83 Comments

Rainfall9/17/2017, 5:38:42 PM22 votes

First 2 clips:zed jungle cant fight fed corki.(corki is way ahead in gold and levels in both clips) 3rd Clip:thats a broken janna has nothing to do with the adc. 4th clip:immobile no armor yasuo pretty late in the game gets almost 1v1'd by twitch after failing windwall and getting grounded by cassio.Yasuo has no armor and tanked a good 5 autoattacks. clip 5:twitch kills talyah with his ult,talyah did not have a chance to kill him anyway but he complains about the range of his r. Last clip:draven 1v1s leblanc after she misses her E, soraka manages to squeeze in a heal before leblanc dying leaving draven 20% hp then draven kills soraka as well.

All in all in 2 of your clips someone is playing an assasin off-role and is trying to 1v1 a fed adc 1 clip is irrelevant to the adc balane yasuo misplayed and got 1v1d by an adc. 1 clip has leblanc a champion that is known to be weak and is scheduled for a rework. and the last is bjersken complaining about twitch's R's range.

Marshbouy9/17/2017, 4:56:00 PM18 votes

So first up we have a clip of the best zed player in NA (LL stylish) and the best(maybe) riven player in NA (Revenge) teaming up to take down 1 fed adc. This "fed" adc is actually only 7-2 but i suppose everyone will have their own opinion of what "fed" is.

7-2 is pretty fed for an ADC is high elo. If it's challenger/master league 7-2 is extremely fed. That's not even knowing CS counts. I want to point out that he missed every single Q in the video. Not a single one landed. Still, the damage was pretty crazy.

Dont say they "suck" or they "misplayed" as they are some of the best players out there and if it were me on zed there I probably would have died.

landing 0/3 Qs is a misplay FYI. In the second clip you posted the enemy Corki had a 3 level advantage on the zed. That's pretty huge. Sure, the damage was still very high but it Corki was very ahead that whole game.

Next up we have a clip of Faker's stream where the twitch on his own team D/Cs or AFKs or something. But the cool thing is, while the twitch is AFK in the mid lane, the enemy syndra is not able to kill an AFK/disconnected twitch while the twitch's janna is healing/shielding him. Then the 2% hp twitch proceeds to kill a full hp Kayn again through the use of shields.

That seems like a Janna problem and not a twitch problem. Also, the Kayn barely landed his Q, his W, took 4 tower shots, and only landed 2 autos.

Next up we have Yassuo who I believe is the best yasuo player NA, decides to catch a poorly positioned twitch who is alone farming in a side lane. Yassuo is pretty fed with 13 kills but looks like twitch is a pretty fun champ!

I agree. that was absolutely ridiculous.

Now we have Bjergsen who is the best mid laner NA (imo) playing pre nerf taliyah and getting 60-0d by a twitch from 700+ range. Now the reason I chose this clip is because alot of people say twitch needs his full items to do stuff like this but in the clip you can see twitch only has ONE completed item and we can also see a little bit of salt from bjergsen :^) (for fair reason imo!).

half health squishy gets killed by enemy squishy from really long range. I see no issue here other than (arguably) the range of twitches R. It wasn't even like it was a total one shot. He got hit by a W, 3 autos, and an E.

Draven clip

Yeah that was pretty crazy.

to summarize. Some of the clips were crazy but most were either not an ADC problem, not as insane as you made them seem, or the ADC was super fed.

Osbeorn9/17/2017, 4:56:41 PM18 votes

Individual clips mean nothing, you can definitely find individual clips for other roles doing similar things as well, what you need are objective statistics and there are no objective statistics supporting the idea that adcs are super OP at the moment. I would agree that Twitch is OP, but not marksmen as a whole. If a support is too good at shielding, that would not mean that the marksmen is op, but rather that the support is.

Zero Skill Tank9/17/2017, 7:39:57 PM18 votes

No shit, that is the point. We are comparing what X fed class can do vs what Y fed class could do in the past. Of course they are fed rofl. Ironically the difference is, even if they werent fed they would still be relevant.

Yeah 3-0 Riven or Zed easily 1v2s and it's perfectly ok and people are like 'just not feed them'.

But 7-2 Corki 1v2s when LL misses all 3 fucking shuris and people go 'don't tell Zed missplayed because he is best Zed he can't missplay he just panicked'.

You marksmen haters are just sad, and that's coming from tank/juggernaut player.

Solitair9/17/2017, 11:16:56 PM17 votes

TL;DR

"Hey guys all this anti-adc crusading going around is full of exaggeration which produces unreliable claims, so I, the completely unbiased and trustworthy voice of reason, will help cut through all that noise by providing you with a tiny collection of anecdotal clips taken out of context of rank division and poorly analyzed with my own biases to underhandedly imply what all the anti-ADC crusading is stating up front."

You should work for a major news outlet.

FireToa9/17/2017, 5:00:05 PM16 votes

Most of these vids had Twitch which is THE most broken adc at the moment. Yah adcs like Draven and twitch are pretty damn op but not ALL adcs are like them. Also a lot of these vids had people dying to adcs either when they were extremely behind or when the adc had help from a teammate.

Jbels9/17/2017, 4:46:13 PM14 votes

It's absolutely disgusting the lengths to which adc mains will go to defend their disgustingly overpowered role. This game used to revolve around TEAM play. Now it revolves around ADC play. Oh my god, tanks used to be able to "melt" (kill) ADCs. Now they can;t, AND adcs have been given defensive itemization. This is the worst meta I have ever played in, and I say that while fully acknowledging the horrible ADC lethality meta.

SanKakU9/17/2017, 6:58:56 PM12 votes

First clip is a joke as Zed used ultimate way too early. What a way to start off a post.

As for how fast his health is dropping, I don't see any health items on him.

item 3071 item 3748 item 3053 item 3814 item 1413 item 3812 item 3022 I don't own Zed, but I reckon if he had any of the above items, he'd have a much better chance of being able to do his job. Also, it's worth noting that Corki deals magic damage with his basic attacks, and Zed only has <60 Magic Resist.

Second clip is not a big deal, Janna used her ultimate to save him, which knocked Syndra away apparently. Maybe if Syndra had stunned the Janna she could have killed Twitch? I don't know, the camera work isn't that great there. At any rate, it was really silly of Kayn to go for that play no matter how low Twitch was since her shield was obviously going to be ready by the time he attacked.

Third clip is lame because Yasuo's Q obviously wasn't ready, that's why Twitch went in. And, instead of backing off, Yasuo got cocky and dived at him.

Fourth clip is not a big deal at all because it was basically a 1 vs 1 with a 55 percent health mage against >90 percent health marksman. And the mage got really close to killing the marksman. I don't see why this would make Twitch look problematic.

Fifth clip is of a marksman with atk spd steroid ability facing off 2 squishies, he also has IE, BG, VS, DB, and almost a completed RFC. I fail to see how that is even mildly out of the ordinary or why that would be a problem. He's fed and the Soraka's silence really was too late to accomplish anything. Leblanc went in far too early for how squishy she was. Now if Soraka went in first and had appropriate defensive items, then you might have an argument. Not necessarily a good one, but certainly something worth debating.

These players might have simply been fatigued and wanted to minimize twitch chat criticism of their plays, so they likely wouldn't confirm that they screwed up and instead would allow the viewers to come to the conclusion that the enemy champions were too strong. There's nothing weird about any of these clips, and they don't make marksmen out to be the bad guys unless you are looking at them from a biased viewpoint.

Smitty Manjensen9/17/2017, 8:38:50 PM11 votes

When I started reading this I see the OP mentioning exaggerations from both sides, so I thought well maybe i'll see some reasonable arguments against both sides, what I actually get is exaggerations with carefully selected videos...sigh.

Jbels9/17/2017, 5:12:55 PM10 votes

And here come the deniers, who will defend the marksmen class to the death despite how game warping and polarizing they are, and how much obvious evidence of unbalance against their class there is. The entire damn game revolves around the ADC, to the point where JUNGLERS AND TOP LANERS ARE BUILDING SUPPORT ITEMS. But no. They're fine.

OtterlyLost9/17/2017, 8:28:32 PM9 votes

{quoted}

Hello everyone,

Since everybody is already crusading against ADCs and sometimes throwing out crazy exaggerations, while those defending ADCs also throwing out crazy exaggerations/blatantly denying whats going on; I thought id make a post with minimized personal opinions and instead just simply show some clips of whats actually happening so this way we wont have stupid arguments of whats possible or not possible (through the twitch.tv clipping system). I think everyone will get a kick out of these clips.

So first up we have a clip of the best zed player in NA (LL stylish) and the best(maybe) riven player in NA (Revenge) teaming up to take down 1 fed adc. This &quot;fed&quot; adc is actually only 7-2 but i suppose everyone will have their own opinion of what &quot;fed&quot; is.

https://clips.twitch.tv/BlushingCulturedChinchillaBabyRage Bonus clip : https://clips.twitch.tv/LovelyObedientTardigradeSoBayed

Couple things to note here: Re-watch when stylish engages the adc with his ult, stylish&#039;s hp drops so incredibly fast I had to rewatch it like 3 times. Even though he immediately swaps out with his pre-placed W, hes still lost 75% of his hp in literally a blink of an eye. Then you can see revenge of fiora just getting clicking down by a relatively stationary opponent. Dont say they &quot;suck&quot; or they &quot;misplayed&quot; as they are some of the best players out there and if it were me on zed there I probably would have died.

He literally walked into the Corki's ult Rocket right at the start of the engage and the went on to miss a lot of his abilities and damage. :/ Furthermore, Corki has always been a bursty ADC just based on his build. He has a flipping triforce that he can proc the sheen on over and over again due to a low CD ult and low CD abilities. He also cannot function bot lane and does like 90% magic damage with his AA's. This Zed literally has 0 MR items, which is silly because there are good options for Assassins for MR items.

Oh and he's jungle Zed so he isn't particularly fed and had to put off a lot of his power spikes in order to build a jungle item. He's not particularly playing in a role that Zed is meta oriented for.

Next up we have a clip of Faker&#039;s stream where the twitch on his own team D/Cs or AFKs or something. But the cool thing is, while the twitch is AFK in the mid lane, the enemy syndra is not able to kill an AFK/disconnected twitch while the twitch&#039;s janna is healing/shielding him. Then the 2% hp twitch proceeds to kill a full hp Kayn again through the use of shields.

A really important detail is that I actually messed up the clip and I clipped too late so the first about 3-4 seconds of the twitch being afk near the syndra were actually cut out. So my bad for that just imagine that the twitch was face tanking for about another 3-4 seconds prior to the start of the clip.

Here it is : https://clips.twitch.tv/MildBigPhoneBuddhaBar

Okay, and? The Twitch was AFK and his support saved his ass. She also burned a SHITLOAD to save him; she was almost completely OOM by the end of the clip and had to burn her ult and CD's constantly. As for the Twitch killing the Kayn, he still died, for one. For two, that Kayn tanked like three to four tower shots trying to kill the ADC and this is with that twitch's support standing right there. That's his own misplay.

Next up we have Yassuo who I believe is the best yasuo player NA, decides to catch a poorly positioned twitch who is alone farming in a side lane. Yassuo is pretty fed with 13 kills but looks like twitch is a pretty fun champ!

https://clips.twitch.tv/HealthyAssiduousYogurtPJSalt

He went after a Twitch with no vision of the rest of Twitch's team and got punished for it. The Cass W kept him from dashing directly onto the Twitch, which saved the Twitch actually. Furthermore, AS HE WAS LEAVING BASE, he even acknowledged that he shouldn't be doing this because he doesn't have a pink ward. And the final nail in the coffin is, yes, he's a "fed" Yasuo but look at that Twitch's farm and items. Twitch has a FULL item advantage on the Yassuo and about a 100 more farm than him with only three less kills. That is a fed as hell Twitch.

Now we have Bjergsen who is the best mid laner NA (imo) playing pre nerf taliyah and getting 60-0d by a twitch from 700+ range. Now the reason I chose this clip is because alot of people say twitch needs his full items to do stuff like this but in the clip you can see twitch only has ONE completed item and we can also see a little bit of salt from bjergsen :^) (for fair reason imo!).

https://clips.twitch.tv/DifficultDignifiedBearPeanutButterJellyTime

Bjergsen was already chunked by something first of all. Second of all, he literally could have thrown his minefield down to slow the Twitch down. Third of all, Twitch has been a problem all season; even when ADC's were "bad", Twitch was ridiculously good.

Next up we have a clip of one of the best draven players out there (which btw if you guys havent checked out his stream he has absurd talent and would destroy people even when draven was bad).

https://clips.twitch.tv/ArbitraryShyMousePastaThat

Its a 4/0 Draven. Draven can do this regardless of whether ADC's are good or not. -_- If a Draven is 4/0, he's going to two shot anyone because Draven is a champion designed with the idea of snowballing. He gets extra gold for kills.

These clips literally prove or show nothing; just fed ADC's doing what fed ADC's are meant to do. :/ Stay with their team and murder people.

TekkenPlayer9/17/2017, 10:31:08 PM8 votes

This is what we call in psych: confirmation bias

lil koda9/18/2017, 1:01:43 AM8 votes

the fact that this post has upvotes xd

PePsiLemoNN9/17/2017, 8:31:29 PM8 votes

Let's just fight someone that's 2 levels above me :-?.

I can find clips of assassins oneshoting ADC's then making a post like this ''proving'' that ADC's aren't op too :^). Won't even bother to explain why these clips mean literally nothing cause others did that already xd

the weeaboo9/17/2017, 9:05:21 PM7 votes

Bitch bitch bitch about Twitch. He's been deleting people since I've started playing a season and a half ago. I main him. He's always been like this. Now yal just butthurt since they finally took down Caitlyn, Lucian, Jhin, Ezreal, and Tristana so he's the only one left to pick on.

Bring on the downvotes.

Anyway these single clps don't prove shit. I could find a clip of a crit Nautilus deleting a Zed too but that doesn't mean crit Nautilus is broken

SchmidttyGames9/17/2017, 5:10:06 PM5 votes

I'd like to know how the ADC on the other team is feeling during those games. You know, the ADC who lost and is now rendered completely inert and useless because his opponent used him as a bank account.

Where one is strong, the other becomes equally weak. That's why your best ADC's out there have huge wins and only minimal losses in lane. They don't become so heavy when losing that their opponent becomes "like that". There are always two sides to the coin.

Hungry Cancer9/17/2017, 8:18:33 PM4 votes

Most of these were just videos of misplays vs ADC's; that Zed shoulda known Corki was gonna fuck him since it's a Corki a whole item ahead vs a 3/4 Zed who missed his skillshots and got chunked by Corki's Q and R a bit before he got right up close to Corki where he was vulnerable to getting nuked by Corki's E and R plus AA's; Yas got 2v1'd by Cass and Twitch, that's not really a misplay it just happens sometimes; Fiora stayed to try to 1v1 a fed Corki 3 levels ahead of her who also had the 3rd tier of his ult compared to her weak-ass lvl 14 shit when she shoulda backed out with the Zed, her flash was even up if she needed it, Taliyah has a non-damaging ult that has always put her at a disadvantage in terms of damage which is what happened there, they were trading with their basic abilities fairly consistently until Twitch upped the ante and ulted, but that's just a weakness of Taliyah; and the Draven video was a Draven with IE, Zeal, Berserker's, and vamp scepter vs an LB with Hextech Revolver, Cutlass, and basic boots and a Raka with Sight Stone, Nomad's Medallion, and basic boots they totally should have died to the Draven in that fight, especially since they didn't start the fight together and the Raka got there too late.. Just because they're pro's doesn't mean they don't misplay. BTW it's quite easy to misplay on Corki mate, he has to position very carefully, he's squishy as fuck, and he's useless until he completes Tri-Force. "even if they werent fed they would still be relevant." I'm sorry but a 1/10 ADC is going to be useless and even if they haven't died a lot if they are an item behind an enemy carry they're going to have a hard time against that champ.

Emelie Cauchemar9/17/2017, 7:50:19 PM4 votes

Every single one of these clips the ADC had more levels than their opponents + also had circumstances preventing them from dying.

Yasuo would have killed Twitch but Cass grounded him allowing twitch to reposition.

IPERFECTO9/18/2017, 10:18:18 AM4 votes

You said you're neutral and not biased, but in the yasuo video you said like yasuo is way ahead twitch, or at least has equal items, which is wrong.Twitch had 94 more cs which is A LOT, and you can also check twitch tab items and you will see that twitch has 4 finished items when yasuo has only 3,5(and mallet only usefull when finished),also when youre saying that "it's the best yasuo\zed\riven!(he played FIORA,not riven)"don't forget that they're also best adcs if they're playing with them,so they can outplay them.I won't talk about zed(why do you even put corki here, he's midlaner and not going botlane loing time ago),but twitch actually outplayed yasuo(or yasuo royally misplayed), he just threw his tornado and windwall in the dumbster, so twitch just went out of stealth and had his free kill,it's like complaining that adc killed you're ziggs who threw literally every single spell on minions

Blåbæret9/18/2017, 6:17:23 AM3 votes

Lmao, just here to read the comments made by ADC mains. The denial is real.

ADCs are soloing assassins and fighters left and right by right clicking, and these ADC mains actually rationalize it. Lmao. ADCs are supposed to be easily killed - in this meta, they are arguably the hardest class to kill through their tank butt buddies, shields and lifesteal drain tanking. They also have sustained burst. 2-3 crit autos are enough to kill any squishy in the game. Sounds balanced, amirite?

Sdars9/17/2017, 7:28:56 PM3 votes

Fact 1: ADCs have too much agency in the outcome of the game.

Fact 2: There's way too much damage in the game overall (not just adcs), and lower damage would be a lot more fun, entertaining, and healthy for the game.

Fact 3: Riot as a company doesn't care about what's best for the game, just what's the best way to milk their players the most, and that's insulting to the players and Rioters that care.

1 will eventually be "fixed" with some small nerfs and mostly by creating a bigger problem than adcs, and 2 will never be fixed, or will only be fixed a long, long time from now, because they think they can't do that while keeping laning phase in pro play interesting (which honestly isn't even a hard challenge), because the players are used to the brokenness and they're afraid people would dislike "nerfs" to everyone, and because players are still giving them money, so why bother changing it if they're still making good money? More efficient of them to wait until a lot of people get mad, and just before they start leaving, kill a meme or 2 to make people think riot is a great company and make them stay for longer.

Wouldn't want players to start building high expectations, huh?

LawUrDepravdHart9/18/2017, 7:51:30 PM2 votes

The videos out of context are shocking, but you need to look closer at the circumstances in them. Most of these cases have circumstances that heavily favor the ADC bc of gold leads, level leads, etc. That's not proof that adc's are broken. It just goes to show that fed ADC's do damage

1st and 2nd videos- Look at the map. All of the enemy Corki's towers still stand in the first video and not much has changed by the 2nd except that Corki's team secured the baron buff and he's even stronger. The enemy team is obviously winning by at least 10k. Corki is probably a mid laner, so he's full late game build. LL Stylish is down 2 levels (15 to 17) and has no MR in his inventory (no hexdrinker). He misses all of his Q's. Not sure what you're expecting.

3rd Video- Yep Janna has a lot of healing and shields. Twitch also pops his heal at one point. Kayn takes 4 shots, and misses his W.

4th video (Yas vs. Twitch). Twitch is up 1 level and over 100 cs. He has 4 completed items to Yasuo's 3 and 1/2. Twitch gets to free fire on him bc Yas wastes his knock up and is grounded by Cass's W so that he can't position to quickly kill twitch.

5th video (Bjerg vs. twitch). Twitch is 4-0. Bjerg doesnt have his W up the entire fight, he just burned his flash cooldown and is on the retreat. He hits Twitch with 5 Q's, but twitch just has the range with this ult. Not surprising that he dies there as he was in a bad position just before the clip started.

6th video (Draven vs leblanc). Draven is up 50 cs and 1 level on leblanc. He has a completed IE and a zeal due to his passive gold payouts.