@Riot: Every rioter on the balance team needs to watch this video by Scarra

charge attack·5/30/2018, 3:12:55 PM·137 votes·24,767 views

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrdF1Y4aPPw

Scarra is extremely qualified: he's been a pro player, coach, and analyst for league. He also plays a ton of high-elo SoloQ, multiple roles, and multiple styles.

He brings up a lot of the points people have have been going on about for a long time (power creep etc). Thing is that he much more articulate in his views and I think it would be amazing if the balance team could work with Scarra in the future (I think they do a little bit right now).

I feel like a lot of the "this meta is shit" is rooted in a lot of the points scarra brings up, and instead of just band-aiding each problem doesn't really make the game feel better. Scarra talks about how the game is "balanced in a bad way". Like I wouldn't say the game is super unbalanced, but the way its being balanced right now just doesn't feel good to play, and it feels like with each patch we're digging deeper into a hole where old league is no more and this is league.

79 Comments

FCJAAAAGOOOO5/30/2018, 5:36:39 PM57 votes

The game's now balanced around uninteractivity, around inevitability.

If Yasuo gets one or two kills, he'll start snowballing extremely hard.

If toplane Quinn or a midlane assassin gets one or two kills, they start roaming around the map killing everyone.

If a jungler dies early in a duel for scuttle, the game is now a 4v5 and that jungler is basically a walking jungle creep for the enemy team.

If a botlane feeds and no leads are made by the feeding botlane's team, the game is over.

If midlane feeds any said champion that snowballs hard, the game is over.

If someone on a team feeds and has a useless build, the game is over.

If your team gets wiped once and you weren't ahead, the game is over.

If League of Legends continues down this path, Riot is over.

Kecuz5/30/2018, 4:47:13 PM23 votes

Riot doesnt give a flying fuck about this game. They are owned by chinese company. They have to balance the game around chinese bois who are playing in internet cafes. Its been proven. You guys are beating a dead horse. its time to move on. Prime time of LoL is over and Riot is not going to change it. They just gave up.

Slice n Dice em5/30/2018, 3:50:24 PM11 votes

Apart from him liking the scuttle changes, I agree with him. Scuttle increases variance but it also increases snowball/rubber banding which is very bad. Top/mids taking smite and junglers relying on their laners to leave their lane to help. If it was straight up 1v1 fight, I wouldn't have mind, sure it would kill diversity for the jungle role but still I wouldn't have minded that much but currently the scuttle changes kill diversity + it is usually not a 1v1 jvj. So one jungler has to pretty much give up scuttle or just die trying to get it.

Sure you can give up scuttle but that's alot, half a kill worth of gold and so much exp as it scales. very bad design.

DuskDaUmbreon5/30/2018, 3:30:35 PM7 votes

Edit: Okay I get the point. I honestly mostly just read "Riot you need to watch this video by", saw a fat guy, and assumed it was some random streamer.

Serika Zero5/30/2018, 4:35:47 PM7 votes

no. Scarra is the SAME GUY, that like a few days ago did a video where he said:

the new runes broke the game because they gave more damage to the game.

Failing to recognize that we had BOTH RUNES AND MASTERIES TO GIVE US EXTRA DAMAGE BEFORE THE NEW RUNES!!!!! He said "electrocute gave a lot of extra damage", like wtf, hello thunderlords?

Scarra IS NOT THE VOICE YOU SHOULD BE LISTENING!!!!! HIS MEMORY IS NOT MUCH BETTER THAN THAT OF A GOLD FISH!!!

Think for yourselves, don't follow Scara, thx. Riot sucks as communication with the playerbase, I'll give you that. And their PR staff literally sucks. I get the devs would be a bunch of nerds and suck at communication. That's what the PR department should "fix".

But the game balance is not much worse than it "used" to be. HELLO LEAGUE OF THUNDERLORDS!!!!!

Hello Juggernaut meta, hello shitty tank meta (this doesn't mean that tanks survive in late game, this means tanks would have the base damages of bruisers and fighters in the early game and obviously outscale them by end game), hello obvious adc fethish. But they are doing something in that direction, slowly as fuck, but they are.

And this comes from someone that uninstalled the game this year. This comes from someone that even tho played the game for like 4-5 years, hated it. But also from someone that doesn't follow like a sheep on the mob mentality. Despite being a sheep, #irony of the chinese calendar

BLACK REALM GOD5/30/2018, 5:27:41 PM7 votes

holy shizz. scarra is intelligent, but damn is he scatterbrained when trying to make points and long winded. I can relate to that so well.

let me attempt to tldr. i hope this is accurate.

TLDR :

variance = the aspects of a game that make each match feel different. is rated by how different.

runes - get rid of them. they create lower variance. they allow every champion to be viable, but can't easily be balanced.

AP items rework failed to bring diversity due to the importance of magic penetration items.

the game has too much back and forth - creates random outcomes and high variance that isn't rewarding and uncertainty in the game.

minions are too weak allowing players to manipulate it without being punished for making a mistake.


i hope my tldr is accurate.

Marothennan5/30/2018, 8:37:56 PM4 votes

"The game has been balanced around double penetration"

420 grams5/30/2018, 5:21:41 PM4 votes

Yeah, let's take balancing advice from someone who picks Sejuani summoner 11 support and can't get challenger despite playing the game for a living and one of the longest veteran players.

SociopathFriend5/30/2018, 4:51:15 PM3 votes

Is this the same video where Scarra goes, "No- balance around high elo. They're mechanically capable and really good." and then only cites Plat and Diamond despite that not accounting for like 90% of the playerbase?

lolipopevelynn5/31/2018, 12:53:43 PM3 votes

No one realizes or just dont care that this is the same guy who thinks the game needs more dmg and that towers need to remain weak if not be weaker?

EsoEs5/30/2018, 9:30:03 PM2 votes

Responding to Scarra video..

I completely disagree with his thoughts on variance. League variance is has been trending higher and higher for years, and it can be argued that this higher variance is actually bad.

Case in point, there are lanes when one death means the lane is completely over, and the enemy laner is free to roam and pressure the map while you are stuck under tower. This to me is extremely high variance, since 1 kill or death can completely make or break how an entire game plays out.

Scuttle crab IS more variance (which Scarra rightly states), but I don't think its healthy variance as the jungler who gets a lead, or lane who gets a lead and can pressure will 90% of the time secure the scuttle, something which only further snowballs slight leads and leads to extremely high variance.

Haven't listened to the rest yet, but it seems that a high level of variance means I myself have very little control over a game, since a bad teamfight, bad lane trade, or just bad matchup will snowball into small advantages regularly over the course of the game, even if those things are occuring in lanes other than my own.

Automated Riven5/30/2018, 9:47:25 PM2 votes

Here is my thoughts. Riot has focused extremely hard on making every characters kit unique. However. They have done absolutely nothing to ensure that each champion fits a unique gameplay niche, which imo is far more important regarding balance. For example. Take the scirmishers. (I don't have the list so I'm just naming some off) Yasuo, riven, Fiora, Camille, renekton. They all play the same damn way and they have the samepower curve (barring renekton) split, outscale your opponent in a 1v1 and try for a flank in a teamfight. They all are fairly weak until level six and then start beating their opponent (generally speaking) and they all function extremely well in small fights and rather poorly in large ones.

Ok, so let's break it down then and focus on how we can make them different. (this is purely suggestion, and not intended to have all of these ideas be good. This is specifically ideas to provoke conversation)

Fiora. Lower the percent true damage early and increase the scaling slightly. Remove the aoe heal on ult. Maybe Grant her a burst of healing on procing all her vitals on her ult/killing him. Remove the as slow on w.

Camille. Reduce the true damage on q late game. (this lets her be slightly less effective against tanks while increasing fioras value in those matchups) Grant her some bonus mr/armor for each opponent knocked away with her ult. / Make the duration last longer for each nearby enemy. .75 seconds for a solitary target scaling to 3 seconds with 5 enemies. Make her heal more affective against multiple opponents and less effective alone. (These changes push her into a teamfighting scirmisher. Granting her bonuses for being near enemy champions)

Renekton. Allow him to be the early game bully. But falling off in 1v1s against scirmishers but still able to apply pressure against tanks. I would just buff his early game a bit and maybe tiny buffs to late game.

Riven, honestly I don't want her changed. She is another teamfighting scirmisher. She falls off in 1v1s due to zero armor pen and has a ton of aoe damage. So she could be tuned to fit in wombo compo teamcomps. Maybe the slightest buff to cc while a mild nerf to damage. Idk. She would fit as an engaging scirmisher.

Yasuo. Higher base stats. Lower scaling. Ult single target. Basically pushing him into a midgame Fiora. Single target focused, stronger early game. Weaker late game. A very strong midgame with 100% crit before people get proper defensive stwi Or even if he fit and was balanced around a midgame Camille it would work. He would fall off compared to her.

And then each class should be balanced around that class. As well as the game. And also should be balanced with the idea that each champion in the game is going to have times where they are stronger.

Renekton should have a 55% winrate at 20-25 minutes. And it should drop off to 45 at 30 minutes + and conversely Fiora should have a 45% winrate at 20-25 minutes and raise to a 55 at 30min+

Edit. The point here is that when riot wants every champion to fit the same role and powercurve then we get a point where only 10 champions are viable. And the reason they are viable is because the 10 champions who are slightly better got banned. If you were given the choice of playing either Fiora or a Fiora clone (basically the difference between Cassiopeia and azir, or Fiora and Camille) the one you choose is the one that deal 5 more damage and has 5 more hp. However if you are choosing from early game Fiora who has flat true damage and tons of hp and damage early and falls off. Vs mid game Fiora and late game Fiora. There are actually more choices there.

Edit2 IMHO tp needs to be removed as well. The lack of brain needed in toplane because you just tp whenever there is a teamfight is pretty stupid. Also it removes splitting as a valid strategy because there is no cost to matching a splitpusher.

omegalopolis5/31/2018, 12:46:36 AM2 votes

the solution is league of legends 2

SkullBashe5/31/2018, 12:20:47 PM2 votes

I'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks saying Scarra is "extremely qualified" is a bit of a stretch. The onlt thing he's been qualified for in all those roles/positions you listed is being "extremely" subpar in all of them and never really blossoming in any of them. I don't think I know of many actual pro players that would consider diamond solo queue "high elo"...

All that being said it's not to say that I don't agree with some of his points it's just I think you should consider when and how you try to sell someone's credibility/ethos to a community.

CloudedLogic5/30/2018, 4:37:48 PM2 votes

If champions needing to kill minions, while others needing to not be able to is a problem, why wouldn't you give bonus damage to minions to those champions?

I think rumble used to have it, I am sure others can too if it is absolutely required.

Rins Thigh Socks7/13/2018, 11:26:30 PM1 votes

My favorite part is where he said balancing the game is extremely hard and he's the example being used by Boards' pseudo-intellectual wannabe game balancers.