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@Meddler The E Max with Nasus: Is Riot examining this trend?

Swiftstrike4·11/18/2016, 10:56:39 PM·4 votes·1,128 views

First, I want to thank Riot for the changes to Nasus' ultimate. The change has made Nasus much more playable than in the past, and fits the "raid boss" theme that he is ideally supposed to be become.

After the change, his play rate and win rate went up (WR about 50%) which is where he usually sits.

Riot is also probably aware of Nasus' new trend though which has divided Nasus players into very two distinct playstyles: The E Maxers and the traditional Q Max.

I like the idea that Nasus has different styles of play, but it does seem that the E max strategy runs completely contrary to Nasus from a thematic standpoint and the fundamentals of his kit.

I don't want to see the champion nerfed after receiving a buff, but I was wondering if Riot is looking into addressing the Spirit Fire max strategy?

If you are considering a change, what are the ideas Riot is considering?

I don't think the E max strategy is more/less successful than Q max (win rate seems about the same). It is just simpler for more players to do and doesn't require much knowledge or mechanics with the champion to pick up. Spirit fire is an easy-to-hit skill shot, provides immediate lane pressure, has really good early damage, and the champion has some relevance prior the 15 minute game mark. It also is effective against ranged top laners, which have been pretty prominent.

The E maxers play for the early game and the Q maxers play for the mid/late. There is no guarantee for either leading to a greater likelihood of a win: one type of player roles the dice hoping to find later game success with an increasingly stronger late game, and the other sacrifices their late game presence completely for only earlier pressure in the hope that the team capitalizes on this pressure by ending the game sooner. I can see this being effective in higher Elo (Diamond+) and ineffective in lower divisions.

I don't want to see Spirit Fire nerfed, because it is important that a Nasus player can use it to farm if they cannot farm safely with siphoning strike. However, Nasus seems to be in a pretty strong place for a melee champion at the moment with either strategy.

I don't know how Riot could incentivize maxing Q over E without making the champion too imbalanced. If Nasus got more damage from stacking minions, he may be too strong too soon and if the cooldown from Q is lowered too much he may stack at too fast a rate. Seasoned Nasus players could definitely capitalize on a lower cooldown Q earlier.

I play a lot of Nasus and have still remained a Q maxer. I learned the champion for the late game damage payoff and my strategies and playstyle revolves around that paradigm. By maxing E I playing a completely different game and sacrificing any late game prowess.

I do think that if E's early scaling is lowered, it may become useless in situations where I cannot farm or max Q without dying or being dove.

13 Comments

Korillo11/22/2016, 8:46:07 PM2 votes

Your own posts suggests that both strategies are perfectly viable with relatively equal win rates, so why are you asking for changes?

Balance wise it seems to be more than acceptable. It basically sounds like you are of the opinion that Nasus should be a champion that you max Q on and farm out your Q, and are opposed to the play style of people who max their E first. Since you disagree with the people maxing E, it therefore needs to be changed?

I see no issues with either strategy and it would appear to me that nothing needs to be changed. Let people play the way they want.

Ravenous Howls11/22/2016, 8:25:00 PM1 votes

I think the fact that is trending a slightly worse win rate over the original Q stack method speaks to the idea that they will probably leave it alone for now. I just don't understand the hype though as it is highly situational on your team creating something out of your pressure and securing the victory. Also If this is the preferred style then it almost makes more sense to just grab components for a ROA as your rush and complete normal tank after. It feels so silly to buy 1300 gold in items that I am only going to use for 5-10 minutes then sell for the items I actually needed 5-10 minutes ago.

Before those of you who think this is META start crying about my statement or that I don't understand it please just understand that Nasus' kit revolves around him doing damage to stay taking objectives or duel. This build renders his Lifesteal useless as it is his stacks that allow him to stay constantly healthy to win skirmishes or take objectives he is trying to be pressured out of. I understand that the new build applies alot of pressure with zoning the other top laner out of farm and pushing with ZZ'Rot but if you enter mid game your team is even or behind you have no chance to impact the map with your low stacks.

To your point my friend I do agree that if they nerf his Spiritfire it will effectively reset him to the state he was in 2 months ago. SF is his only other reliable damage ability to push and duel. Even if they lower it's scalling earlier and have it hit it's full amount after it is maxed it will hurt him. They could make it scale off his health though. It would obviously make him stronger in ult again but would reduce the early cheese damage from the double doran's. Last option would be to give it % armor shred so it does less utility early.

Duke Anax11/22/2016, 8:55:10 PM1 votes

E max often along with an AP build has always been a viable if less popular strategy for Nasus.

It's a completely different playstyle that sacrifices something to gain something else.

This is the epitome of great champion design and should never be changed as long as it works.

WoonStruck11/23/2016, 1:47:25 PM1 votes

Its literally not an issue.

Nasus is sacrificing his Q stacks in order to have an early-mid game.

That's called a trade off. Something most champions don't have to do to access a new powercurve. Please see: Yasuo, Gnar, Cass, Cait, etc.

RexSaur11/23/2016, 5:24:19 PM1 votes

E max is op, it makes him have lane pressure as a champ whos supposed to have no laning phase, giving up stacks in the first 5~10 mins in nothing of a downside because you dont really stack that much early since ur Q doesnt have a lot of CDR, its by the time you hit lvl 9/11 with some CDR is when your stacking becomes relevant, and by that point you can stack as normal while being able to annoy/bully other melee champions with E max early game, there is no upside of maxing Q over E now (because E is broken).

They should nerf it, im sure if vayne became stronger in lane this forums would cry about her being massively overpowered and etc, but since its a melee champion in this case its all good and fine am i right?