But this is not a question of flexibility: again, a core part of the ability's scouting power requires Swain to hit the ability on champions. One does not scout and combo off of allies at the same time, nor can one simultaneously scout and "set up" the ability, in your own terms, by knowingly exploiting the enemy's lack of vision. You rationale here simply isn't adding up.
Scouting simply means searching. It's not that my "rationale" isn't adding up, you're just not following - which is fine.
I should have suggested this a few days ago, would you like to organise a test session on the PBE to assess the uses of this ability in and out of lane?
And? In either case, you are still hitting a target with no "setup", unless you also count catching recalling enemies as setup.
Okay, now you're reaching.
First off, I broke down the case-by-case for both melee and ranged opponents, so I would advise reading just a little further into the paragraph, and second, zoning and poke are not mutually exclusive. If you safely force an opponent to take damage from a distance, you are poking them, whether or not it is with the intention of driving them out of an area.
You did, my bad. My point stands though, you're not forcing them to take damage in those instances - if anything you're forcing a decision. If they decide to take that damage, then yeah it's poke.
You may call that set up, but the more common use for setup in League is when referring to situations prepared by oneself or one's allies. It does not refer to just making tactical definitions. Again, this would be a pristine opportunity for you to give your own, general definition of "setup" (and not the special-cased one you've formulated down below), so that we could work on common ground, because right now the term feels far too ambiguous as you've been using it in your last few posts.
Yes, but we were talking about him setting up the W alone :/. If Swain sees an enemy about to face check a bush he knows isn't warded and hits his W, he set it up. It's like setting a trap, you prep it for the unsuspecting victim so it goes off before they can react to it.
I don't appreciate this: "Again, this would be a pristine opportunity for you to give your own, general definition of "setup" (and not the special-cased one you've formulated down below)" - We're talking about Swain, of course I'm going to apply my example to him.
If it helps, here is my definition of setup, which I've brought up previously: setup is when you or your teammates actively engineer a situation favorable to a particular play. For example, a 5-man Malphite ult is the perfect setup to a Miss Fortune ult, because it limits their opponents' ability to move away and thereby makes the situation more favorable for her. On a less wombo-combo level, the new Swain rooting an enemy with his E would be setup for his W, because he would be holding his opponent in place for a duration and lessening their available window of reaction.
Yes, this is also setup.
By this definition, using allies to pin opponents down for his W is setup, but hitting them when they have no vision is not setup, because the latter is not a situation he or his teammates have actively engineered to, in effect, set that play up. Even the term outside of League implies preparation and organization towards a specific goal, a meaning that does not reflect in your own definition here.
Well like you said the actual definition of setup is: the way in which something is organised, planned or arranged. In my Swain specific example, he would have planned/prepared to hit his W by taking advantage of a blind spot and taking into account the notable delay on his W. It fits both of our examples.
