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I don't care that they aren't "fun" to play against

BlackRoze30·3/17/2015, 4:15:04 AM·10 votes·1,204 views

that doesn't make them op.

"Oooo boo hoo, the assassin one shot me when I had 500 health left, so toxic, no fun to play against."

Remember when we actually balanced the game, you know, ON BALANCE instead of "what was fun to play against." You know whats REALLY not fun? Playing a burst mage that's only good at killing minions. Playing a mobility mage that has no real mobility and no damage. Playing an ADC that is so far outclassed by every other ADC in the game that even wood tier noobs can outlane you without any real effort. Playing in a top lane where, if you don't pick a ranged champion, your enemy probably did and just won lane on that alone.

You people and your "fun to play against" attitude are ruining some of the most balanced champions in the game and @Riot, STOP BALANCING FOR WOOD TIER FUN! Your job is to balance, you balance for balance, learn your job please. I'm tired of all the balanced champions with mediocre win rates getting gutted because a bunch of piss poor players were complaining that they weren't any fun to LOSE to. News Flash: Those people NEVER like losing so of course its no fun.

9 Comments

EvilRabbitt3/17/2015, 4:31:25 AM3 votes

I COMPLETELY agree with you. Nothing in this game is overpowered anymore. Why? Because of the sheer mountain of nerfs. Everything is under powered or balanced now. No this isn't sarcasm, no I'm not being dumb. What these "not fun to play against, please nerf" threads do is turn League of Legends into Stick Stick Arena- a game where you win by right clicking your mouse fast. Thats it. Its not fun to play against an Anivia who places walls well, no need to nerf her. Its boring beyond belief to deal with a Triforce'd Yorick, but he's still seriously underpowered.

tl;dr- OP is right.

Zakennayo3/17/2015, 4:22:52 AM2 votes

Yeah.. Umm

LeBroken can one shot the tank..

Still..

She's been broken since release..

And all she needs is a reduction on W/R and the removal of being able to jump back to the original location of W cast.

Aithos3/17/2015, 4:55:37 AM2 votes

I agree - balancing on anything except competitive play is a stupid, counter-productive concept. You should never under any circumstances be making balance changes based on low MMR players. Akali is a great example of this, so is Riven, so is Diana and Kennen and anyone else that's been "balanced" in the past two seasons that aren't top tier competitive picks. All of the above have been at BEST comfort picks for a handful of players, with the exception of Kennen just now - and even now when he's kinda popular, he holds a 50% win rate in LCS.

None of the above are hard to beat if you have two simple abilities:

learn how to stop dying after you've died once through a combination of vision, not overextending and good decisions (like giving up outer towers when you can't defend them or can be dove). You might say "but I need to farm" and you'd be right, but the catch is - you need to farm WITHOUT DYING. If you die then you have negated a minimum of 20 cs you gained and given that to the enemy team. It is better to not farm at all, or to give up your lane and go somewhere else if your team can't help you...than to die 5 times in the first 15 minutes of the game. No amount of farm will stop your lane from winning every other lane, if you lose farm and lose towers all you've lost is that, the other lanes still have a chance. If you feed you're virtually assuring that your team will lose unless their team is also feeding.
know how to coordinate (read - group) with your team and cc/focus the right targets. How do you group? You leave the other lanes and jungle alone UNLESS either an inner/inhib tower are in IMMINENT danger of being taken (an enemy is actively pushing to the tower and no one is in proximity) or the enemy team is entirely accounted for with vision and NOT grouped. Champions like Akali and Riven especially are WORTHLESS without kills if you can even slightly pressure them to deny farm. That's why they snowball so hard with kills, they rely on them. Same with Talon, or Leblanc or Zed (who farms well but needs kills to stay ahead of your itemization).

If you can do those two things and learn how to itemize/lane without being overaggressive then you can shut down any pub stomper champion. I played a good amount of Riven s3 in ranked 3s and solo queue. I had a 70% win rate with her, my win rate when a Riven was on the enemy team was 85%+ because I knew how to play her and so I knew how to play against her.

Also, matchups are super important - learn just enough champs to have safe picks for anything you might face and focus on getting amazing with those. Forget "meta" picks and forget "counter" picks unless they happen to be champions you enjoy already. If you look at the games I get top lane over 90% of them consisst of: Renekton, Jax, Lissandra, Riven, Darius and Kennen (and likely in that order). I can play a lot of other champs top, but those are the ones I know best and one of those can win virtually any matchup I might face in lane and can work in almost any team comp. I specifically chose Lissandra and Kennen because I also played them mid when I wanted to main mid (I played a mean Kha and Diana s3). Unfortunately both of those champs are now suddenly popular for some reason :(

Chibi Templar3/17/2015, 5:09:31 AM2 votes

Because Nidalee being able to chunk you right back to your base with a single spear is balanced right? Because having an absurdly low CD leap that has no cost, and escape just about any situation and can also become a massive gap closer is balanced right? Because having a very strong heal as an ap burst...whatever she is, is balanced right? Because being able to not only be a crazy strong AP burst hero, but also an AD bruiser hero that has the potential to make top lane a nightmarish mess with its ranged sustained damage, and extremely high magical burst damage is balanced right?

Theres a line between "Healthy burst assassin/mage" and a completely miserable experience that ruins any sort of enjoyment of the game.

Martyrofsand3/17/2015, 5:15:16 AM2 votes

You guys really don't get what is at the core of the "not fun to play against" argument. While I would agree it is phrased rather poorly the heart of it comes down to the feeling that you have little/no ability to respond to what just happened. Take Nid for example. How do you respond to her spamming her spears from 1k range away while retaining the ability to go cat and jump farther away? There really isn't much you can do to that and the thing is when she does land one she will take most of your health and then finish you with a cat form Q before you really get much a chance to respond.

If on the off chance you survive and do trade some with nid she just heals back up while throwing spears at you from outside your range. There is very limited interaction and the only time you really do get to interact with her is when she has a serious advantage or made a massive mistake.

It isn't very fun when you play against an opponent who holds all the cards to the match-up, and the thing is when a champ does hold all those cards they are in fact imbalanced. Nids is a design flaw and they frankly need to completely change her fantasy to actually balance her. Other like the majority of CertainlyT champs have seriously overloaded kits with no balance for damage/utility/mobility.

You can lose and still have fun doing it. Hell I've lost several times to champs like Karthus/Kennen/Jinx/Cassio/etc and I didn't have an issue with it and still enjoyed myself. Why? Because for all they did to kick my ass I still felt like I could do something to fight back. When nid spears and instakills me, after missing 20 in a row, from across the map or Zed presses R at level 6 and I die from 1 rotation of his kit inspite of having Seekers vs his cutlass then yeah I don't get a feeling of "yeah this was a fair fight and I just made a mistake."

Condottiero3/17/2015, 6:36:05 AM1 votes

I have been playing this game for quite a long time now, and never in the history of my time playing this game have I been so frustrated at this game's balance.

Champions are now being gutted for not being "fun to play as, or against", a complete strawman of an argument which makes no sense at all. How can a person possible define "fun" for a few million players, all with individual tastes?
Every time a balance decision is made and people disagree, buzzwords like "counterplay", "anti fun", "toxic", "feast or famine" and "healthy" are brought up.
When a champion is deemed "unhealthy", the champion is immediately declared "poorly designed" and in need of a rework. These types of reworks typically make the champion skillshot based, with greatly decreased mana costs for infinite spamming in lane, and with delayed abilities that anyone with a dash can escape.