About Cassiopeia...

Kıng Boo·11/2/2015, 4:12:54 AM·51 votes·2,810 views

In my opinion, Cassiopeia is slowly turning into what you did to Evelynn after you severely gutted her a few seasons ago, to the point where you were reported for playing her. She's barely relevant in laning phase where you can only farm and pray you don't get ganked or die, because if you do, you might as well just leave the game and not weigh down your team.

If Cass doesn't get ahead, she's just a stun bot then fodder for the enemy team, especially with the gutting of her passive hampering her powerspikes. Her E is meant to be spammed sure, but you can only cast four or five Twin Fangs until you completely drain yourself of your mana and become an open target for retaliation.

You admitted yourselves that Cass is an extremely bad spot but...it just seems you're ignoring her presence entirely.

I feel like something as small as gaining x amount of passive stacks upon assisting or killing an enemy champion (maybe less stacks if it's an assist). It'd certainly be helpful, and allows her to hopefully gain back some relevance should she fall behind in a game.

Edit:

As I thought about other possible changes, you could make Cass less reliant on E, and instead give more possible combinations.

Here's what I'm thinking: Cass' Q does poison damage over time. However, should she strike a poisoned enemy with her E, they will receive all of the DoT damage in one instance. Her Q's poison also no longer resets her E's cooldown.

Cass' W would allow her to do what she does now, if you're hit by Miasma, Cass can repeatedly cast E as long as you're in the Miasma field.

Of course, there's dozens of other ideas, but I just thought these would also be interesting.

38 Comments

Sir Tiddles11/2/2015, 4:06:29 PM24 votes

Her current power level/viability is not my sticking point here. It's completely irrelevant to the major FCK YOU Riot gave to Cass. This abomination is not Cassiopeia, it is Riot shoehorning her into some acid trip vision of a completely different champion. And then after she was mutilated from the champion I mained since day one, from the first champion I bought, from the first champion I loved enough to spend real dollars on for a skin -- after completely changing everything about her strengths and weaknesses and the REASONS why I loved her, Riot (ie, Stashu) dropped off the face of the fcking planet and said screw you guys I don't give a crap about your favorite champion.

  1. The passive mini-game is not fun, and only serves to shackle her for the majority of most games, if not the entirety. Being a hyper carry means after 3 items no matter what you are doing some damage. Being Cass after 3 items means you still do shit until you have finished the 45 minute mini-game. And PS Riot, her win rate after 45 minutes is still not impressive. The passive must go. It doesn't fit into her theme at all. Now she is afk farm for 45 minutes because that is what Stashu thinks is fun. It isn't.
  2. She was always a slippery, area control, manipulative chick who bided her time until the moment to strike was right. Until Stashu ruined her that is. Now she is a magic damage dealing marksman, without hyperscaling of crit and AS. She went from a champ that felt sneaky and underhanded and manipulative with her playstyle, to a boring as sh*t machine-gun E-spammer. Q and W serve no purpose, and do not feel good to use... but hey, more Es AMIRITE???
  3. Nobody wanted this rework. There were threads with literally hundreds of pages of angry posts saying we did not want this, but they ignored the PBE feedback. They ignored the major sh*t-storm once it went live, and never commented on her again besides "oh yeah, we remember some people didn't like some aspects". When Morde's name was going to be changed to something without metal in it, there were some posts and Riot changed its mind. Why, after so long, has the Cass playerbase not been given the same courtesy? I have not seen a larger negative response to something in this game EVER. Why ignore this?
  4. The redone skins are horrible. I don't care much about the others, but the artwork for the redone Desperada skin is the most disgusting thing in this game. The old skin was more detailed and interesting, and actually had the markings of the deadly rattler it was supposed to be. There was a lot of negative feedback about this before it went live, and then after, and Riot steadfastly ignores it. I honestly want a refund of my skin because this one is not at all what I paid for. They didn't even give the courtesy of other champs and give a classic Desperada skin.
  5. Most tragically, and most offensively of all my gripes about this poop sandwich, is that Riot has remained silent. I don't even remember the last time I heard Stashu say anything, despite the company line of "of course, if this rework turns out to not work out we are totally open to changing it".

I wish Riot would have done for Cass what they did for other champ reworks where they asked the players what they loved about the identity of the champ and the feeling of the champ. Nothing about this "evolving power" BS is Cass. Nothing about the shackles of a passive, or the machine gun only playstyle is Cass. But I guess this all stems from Riot hating the Cassiopeia playerbase. Well, Riot won. I can't play my favorite champ because this abomination is not her and playing it just makes me sad. And it has nothing at all to do with her current power level or viability

A Miss Fortune11/2/2015, 11:27:00 AM10 votes

I think her Q, W, and E needs to be reworked so that they're all relevant poison tools. I don't see why Riot finds poison champions toxic just because you can't tell how much damage it will do a lot of the time, I mean at least you can take in consideration health regen/health pots and the chance for someone to walk up to you and shield or heal you is significantly higher than a burst mage like Leblanc who doesn't use poisons.

Oerba No Naja11/2/2015, 6:29:11 PM6 votes

i strongly disagree on destorying q mechanics and synergy with e . lol . the ms from q is just WAY TOO IMPORTANT . and it sensless since you can spam e on teemo and singed 's poisons here is my idea : q with a ap ratio scaling : 40 % 45 % 50 % 55% 65 % and for w : something like + 15 base dmg. i think its fine , dont forget the poison amp on twin fangs ... and , i rather lose a bit from my %ap on passive and get it earlier in the game , Pbe games seems to be rly short :D And i strongly disagree on another rework , i had enough EDIT : doing maths to compare this with the current cassio and the old one would be interresting

Audiomancy11/2/2015, 8:13:18 PM5 votes

I don't understand why they didn't just give her Q a scaling ratio instead of just gutting it completely.

Baseball3b11/2/2015, 4:36:44 PM5 votes

the whole issue imo is the fact that her E is stuffed to the brim with power. I mean, it's a spammable, targeted nuke with spell vamp, mana refund, and a Dot amp. The whole thing just screams toxic (no pun intended). As it exists right now, her other two non-ultimate spells are useless without her E which just isn't healthy, or fun.

Now, the people talking about how how pre-rework Cass was a pure DoT poison mage are just flat out uninformed. Her identity always involved spamming her E. However, the big difference between now and before the rework, is that she currently lacks interactivity. Pre-rework, she could use her Q and W as effective zoning and poke tools, as well as set ups for her E combo. Now they exist for the sole purpose of allowing her to spam her E, which again, just isn't healthy.

tldr; take out some power from her E (which already comprises most of her power budget) and redistribute it into her Q and W which will smooth out her play style and allow her to receive meaningful buffs/nerfs because as she is now, she's an unfun ball of stats.

Khell DarkWolf11/2/2015, 11:56:20 PM4 votes

I want to see another rework.

But at this point if we can't get reprieve, I just wish continuous successful Q's on a target would start stacking the poison DoT so it felt more rewarding then having the same pattern of E over and over again.

Cass's current state of feel and playstyle feels nothing like before. Regardless if she is strong or underpowered. And now I got to worry about Miss Fortune's upcoming rework.

Solumindra11/2/2015, 8:11:35 PM4 votes

I like how you made a post about how cass is in a bad spot....

Then propose a nerf....

Q does it's dmg pretty quick, I would rather have the reset and MS than some weak "nuke". Not that it would even be a nuke because Q does almost no dmg until 500+ AP....

The Queen Viper11/2/2015, 11:44:44 AM2 votes

{quoted}

She's barely relevant in laning phase where you can only farm and pray you don't get ganked or die, because if you do, you might as well just leave the game and not weigh down your team.

She might be a bit weaker than those more frequently played mid champs, however she can still do just fine during the laning phase... also if you know how to play Cass, more often than not it will be your own team that weights you down instead. People still don't know how to play when they have a late game carry in their team.

{quoted}

If Cass doesn't get ahead, she's just a stun bot then fodder for the enemy team, especially with the gutting of her passive hampering her powerspikes.

Nah, she's fine... even when behind, you are still relevant.

{quoted}

I feel like something as small as gaining x amount of passive stacks upon assisting or killing an enemy champion (maybe less stacks if it's an assist). It'd certainly be helpful, and allows her to hopefully gain back some relevance should she fall behind in a game.

Depends. The passive stacks are not the problem though.... they could remove them completely, let Cass start with a full passive and even then it wouldn't help much due to the fact that you need so much raw AP to make the passive worth something.

But sure, they should tweak her somehow.

Canastus11/2/2015, 10:13:16 AM2 votes

Here's your well deserved bump.

You're absolutely right about her issues and how unreliable she has become over the last months. It's beyond me how they didn't get around to revert some of the past nerfs, that's the least they could do in this situation. Instead they're letting her rot for an undetermined period of time. She needs to see some changes, direly.

just a memory11/2/2015, 7:58:21 AM2 votes

We shall see.

Mael bro11/2/2015, 2:17:28 PM2 votes

So you actually want a late game mage dps carry with an incoming riot buzzword opressive laning phase to become viable? I just think that she rewards learning her gameplay and correctly executing her combos like Xerath Syndra. My opinion is to give complete rework on the snake lady. But since nowadays every rework ends up destroyingMordekaiser or breaking Fiora a champion, i think she's fine where she is.

Rubber Jesus11/3/2015, 12:21:17 AM1 votes

I'm only worried about Cass's power spike in the PBE with the new death timers routinely going over 60 seconds at 30 minutes, sometimes up to the 70s. Considering I typically hit 500 stacks around 30 minutes (give or take depending on the game), and the games being shortened to 25-30 minutes, the power spike will come at a point where it is not substantial to the game.

As for power, I typically do not see a huge issue right now with her power. Le Blanc is the only champion that I invariably do poorly against. Zed has gotten much easier after repeat exposure, to the point where he is hungry for kills around level 6-8, as most assassins are, and a simple stun (esp under turret) can easily get a kill. For most, trying to watch their moves and when they time their spells makes it so easy to poke for me. Landing a Q will allow me to dodge most any skill shot. I can zone my opponent to the direction I want them to go with W when a gank arrives.

Of course, I do not build glass cannon Cassiopeia, going on my first back to get item 3070, followed by item 3240. After this, a defensive item is typically needed for maximum poke. item 1057 into item 3001 for AP and item 3191 into item 3157 for AD. item 3136 into item 3151 and/or item 3116 are next. item 3003 when near 750 stacks. item 3135 for maximum penetration (I see what I did there). Her passive gives the Rabadon buff, so it isn't truly needed. Overall, with these items and runes, I will get right around 100 armor and magic resist, 2,000-2,500 health depending on level, 42% penetration, 44 straight penetration after that, and another 20 reduced with Abyssal when I'm in range of my E. Those items make her tankier, and also will take 200 MR down to 52 MR. At 200 MR you are doing 33% of your damage after reduction. At 52 MR I am doing 65% damage after reductions. This effectively doubles my damage. Sure Rabadon's gives you insane AP, but considering her AP ratios are not that high, pure penetration works better. At 110 MR or less, you are dealing true damage on all abilities. The bonus poison damage after landing some E's will make a tank just shred health, especially with Liandry's, and your ult, Zhonya's, plus the added tankiness from items can save you from assassins.

TLDR: If Riot is moving towards games that cap out around 30 minutes, reaching the 500 stack passive (including the average stacks per second on champions and over time) around the 20 minute mark would be ideal.

She's a snake: you need maximum penetration to hit her sweet spot.

I feel her power is in a good spot, even if it doesn't truly capture the essence of poison for me. I don't feel her gameplay of slowly increasing power matches her identity as a character, but that doesn't make it under powered imo.

Spoofghoul11/2/2015, 5:17:11 PM1 votes

O wait this isnt about Sion

Leu0711/2/2015, 8:30:57 PM1 votes

Imo, I would like Cass to be a little bit more of an assasin. That's how I picture snakes.

Gooberp11/2/2015, 11:17:28 PM1 votes

I've wondered before if a way to help Cass would be to nerf her E reset. Make it scale down from, say, 0.8s to 0.4s as it ranks. This would further cement her role as a lategame carry, significantly hamper her trading power without gutting her lane phase, and give Riot the capacity to buff her elsewhere, like her mana pool/costs. Definitely the least fun thing about playing Cassiopeia is running out of mana when you perform your duties properly in the mid-late game, EVEN WITH a Tear/AA.

I know the old Cass mains liked her as a lane bully, but since Riot insists that they hate that, why does she still have a lane bully kit? Scale the E reset time and she has room to allow so much power to be put back into her.