Wouldn't limiting items based on class be best balance?

Lakega·8/21/2018, 5:39:13 AM·5 votes·3,658 views

May not be ideal... but then Riot could actually make a bunch of new items balanced around specific classes, without having to worry about it unbalancing things on another class...

Bruisers, ADC's, assassins, even tanks could all have their own unique item sets to choose from, allowing Riot to balance within classes. Some items could be universal, or be shared between some classes, but ultimately most would be class specific.

You got items like Duskblade, Stormrazor, etc.. becoming completely broken on specific classes, and impossible to balance otherwise.. THen you got classes like ADC's who Riot is afraid to even touch because several times in the past balancing, adjusting their items made them either underpowered, or another class overpowered using the items meant for adcs, just as an example.

24 Comments

Teridax688/21/2018, 6:39:09 AM2 votes

I'd be inclined to agree, but Riot has not been in favor of this option. The purported goal of itemization is, or at least was, to offer diversity of builds, and the freedom to customize the playstyle of your champion. To impose hard restrictions on what a champion can buy would therefore run directly counter to this. More to the point, though, it would be an overt admission that items as a customization system have failed, and that's not something Riot has ever truly been willing to admit.

Instead, what we've gotten over time is "stat binding", a process by which Riot aggressively tunes the stats and scalings of champions such that they can only make use of a handful of stats. Effectively, you're not forced to pick from only a narrow pool of items, but doing otherwise will simply make you lose. Riot have gone even farther by binding certain champions to certain items, e.g. by making AD assassins dependent on Duskblade. This solves many of Riot's problems, in that it lets them balance around a more controlled environment and limits the risk of abuse cases arising from players picking the "wrong" items on certain champions, all without having to impose harder restrictions, but imo is probably an even worse way of going about it: because there is nothing preventing players from picking items that are made to have very little use on their champion, the system we have is full of false choices, which are hugely misleading and new player-unfriendly, as well as a general source of frustration for people who either want to play outside the box, or just honestly do not know what to build. It's also had some pretty negative implications on balance, since the process has left many champions in a state where they are innately stilted, sometimes to the point of being almost useless without a certain item. In the case of many damage champions who were once at risk of building tanky, it's made them scale harder with damage items, thereby contributing to the hyper-snowbally environment we have today.

The larger problem at hand here is that itemization simply doesn't achieve what it had originally set out to do: it does not offer any real customization, because players mostly go for the same builds, often buying items in the same order, and rarely deviate unless in circumstances defined by pre-established rules. In the long term, fixing this may require overhauling itemization, or replacing it with some new system entirely. In the meantime, though, I agree that restricting items to specific champions may be a viable short-term solution. Paragon, a now-defunct MOBA, had this interesting system where each character had a certain set of affinities, and these affinities determined which sorts of items they could buy: effectively, you could only go for tanky items if you had a tanky affinity, or for burst items if you had a burst affinity, and so on. Implementing some sort of color-coded system in this manner could perhaps help, though League's items are also super messy in distributing stats (many AP items offer health, for example). If nothing else, going through every champion by hand, and banning certain items from purchase, could probably make for some much more efficient and direct balancing than implementing some elaborate change that subtly affects the way a champion scales with items, among other side-effects.

Sona Ping8/21/2018, 6:26:26 AM2 votes

If you have to flat out forbid sections of characters from building an item design, to prevent an item from being too strong and unbalancing things, you need to do more work on it and it's probably a bad design. It would not be good holistic game design, especially as this is supposed to be a kind of strategy game and you are supposed to choose which items are the ones that would work best for you in that game to help you win.

Imagine you are getting choked by CC, like you are getting wrecked by Malzahar. He doesn't even need to be beating you, he could just be ulting you so the jungler walks up and freely kills you. So you want to get something to play back, right? You want to use your options to create some counter-play against the plays your opponents have chosen. Oh, but someone decided that Merc Scimitar is an ADC item, and that because QS is such a strong effect only they are allowed to get it. So not only are you not buying it, you don't even get to make a choice about it.

The problem is the overall ideas, the direction that Riot has decided to go in. That for certain ideas that they allow to go through. Riot looks to neglect to take into consideration their, seemingly forgetting what champions exist, and then neglect to act in a timely manner when the effects those ideas, effects they should have considered inevitably occur.

Malza8/21/2018, 6:49:34 AM1 votes

No. Melee exclusive itemization is okay but beyond that there shouldn't be restrictions.

Ðeath XIII8/21/2018, 7:00:46 AM1 votes

If you wanted to go the most esoteric way possible, you'd do it like Dota 2. STR/AGI/INT items combined with pure stat items.

But Riot would never do that. They hated doing Melee/Ranged Only. Most they ever do is mess with base stats like attack speed.

FrockSaints8/21/2018, 7:19:52 AM1 votes

No. All that's needed is for Riot to start using their collective brain.

For example, riot was selling stormrazor as mostly an adc item, while everyone with a brain could tell it would make certain assassins overpowered.

It's like they don't think of the implications. They have this list of ideals for the game, but it's just for show, because most times they flat out ignore them. They're known for their double standards.

Nyarlathοtep8/21/2018, 7:32:56 AM1 votes

Oh definitely. But unfortunately, riot wont do it for their "item diversity". Diversity my ass in my opinion. Their so called diversity that they are trying to preserve is really not important. Or a thing to be fair. But hey their game their rules.

Rebonack8/21/2018, 5:55:24 AM1 votes

Given the lengths Riot has gone to destroy hybrid scaling champs, I'm honestly surprised each champion doesn't have a custom list of a dozen or so items they get to pick from.

That would solve a hell of a lot of balance issues.

meowwow78/21/2018, 10:29:12 AM1 votes

i would say this would be a great idea but then i think about things like Taric building item 3222, and item 3025, or something like that

Boatwhistle8/21/2018, 6:09:17 AM1 votes

Its usually the same bunches of champions that end up breaking certain items and runes, I don't think they need to prohibit entire classes from using certain items. This also would make it so only the champs of each role that can utilize the item pools given best would be meta.

What they should do is not make it so items are balanced around the champions breaking it. They should have the stats of the item be different specifically for champions breaking them. They could make it so if jhin buys storm razor the crit dmg is less or he doesn't get his movement speed bonus from it.

I have always thought it strange they don't put disadvantages in items. Strong support items could be exist without being abused by other roles just by making them so the buyer does 80% less dmg to minions and monsters. Assassin items could significantly lower ones attack speed cap. Fighter items could caps their passives range of effect to 500 units. If champs are negatively effected that the items are intended for then they can be listed as exceptions. The end result ideally being that champs can still build what they want but more extreme easily breakable items will have significant draw backs on champs that would break them.