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Everything deals way too much dmg

Godking Yuuumie·9/6/2018, 6:36:33 PM·37 votes·10,344 views

Ever get right clicked by a Trynd or Yi and think its dumb they kill you in like 3 autos? Ever get ultied by a Zed and die in a second? Ever go full tank and still get melted like butter by an adc? Yeah, it's cuz EVERYTHING DEALS TO MUCH DAMAGE TO EVERYTHING AND EVERYTHING DIES WAY TOO QUICKLY.

Essentially, league has become this: Yi needs to kill the adc in like 3 autos, because if he doesn't, he'll get cc'd and die himself in like 3 autos. Zed needs to kill Leblanc in a second, cuz if he doesn't, Lb will kill him in a second. The adc needs to melt the tank, otherwise the tank'll just kill the Adc. And riot, seeing this happened, never, ever thought to stop adding damage and instead adding utility to champions.

The best example is Nocturne Nocturne. Before I start, please note it doesn't matter if Nocturne is good or not, that's not the point. So just listen for a moment: Right now, if you're an adc and noc fears you, you're dead. But, if noc doesn't get his fear off, he's dead. And, riot seeing this, didn't think to maybe give him some more tank stats and reduce his damage so that he can miss his fear without dying instantly. They didn't buff his spellshield or give him some temporary defense buff when ultiyng so he can survive for more than 3 seconds. No, they just increased his damage and his fear duration, creating the black and white scenario where either he fears you and u die, or he doesn't, and he dies. And this has happened to every single fucking character.

Squishes, ever think it's dumb that Vlad insta kills U? Well, he needs to do that cuz riot nerfed his tank stats, health scaling and healing, so now he needs to kill you, otherwise, u kill him. If you think it's dumb that jannas shields and sorakas heals are so strong, they have to be to counter the insane damages everyone dishes out.

U may read this and ask "who cares, why is it a problem?"

It's a problem for 2 reasons:

  1. There's less room for outplaying - Imagine a duel just to be simple. Leblanc vs Zed. Now, these two will both basically one shot each other. This means that there is one skill check - Their first rotation of spells. One mistake in that spell rotation and you die. Now, imagine if htey dealt a bit less damage but instead had lower cooldowns, meaning that they kill each other in lets say 3 spell rotations. Suddenly, now there's more opprotunity to outplay one another, and the better player actually has the better chance to win.

Because everybody makes mistakes. Faker could lose vs a bronze first time zed given enough tries. And, when there is only ONE CHANCE, the better player can make a dumb, one time mistake and die, cuz everyone can. However, if you give that player three chances instead of one, that one, dumb mistake doesn't matter and his chance to win increases.

Too simplify, the more tries given to both a pro and a noob, the bigger the difference between them will start to become.

  1. Its not fun - It kinda ties into that last point, but when there's so little room for error/outplay potential, it feels frustrating for both parties. It doesn't feel fair for the adc when one single moment of bad positioning or a single failed dodge ends in their death. And it doesn't feel satisfying when it's so "easy", you know? I want both duels and team fights to last. I want back and forths and to be given a second chance sometimes, and for my opponent to be given a second chance sometimes.

So, waht's the fix? It's to add things other than dmg to champions kits. Lower their cooldowns, especielly on utility and cc abilities. For example, make Ahri deal less damage but buff her charm. Lower Zeds burst but increase his mobility and spamability. Lower nocs burst and fear duration but give him more tank stats. Lower Kai'sa's and vaynes damage but make it so that they don't die when u look at them in the wrong way. Take away some of Vlads burst but increase his healing. Nerf Janna and lulus shields and sorakas healing but increase their utility with better slows and stuff. Just do that for all champions.

tl;dr - Everything kills things too quickly because otherwise they get killed themselves. It creates an enviorment where a single mistake ends in your death, and that doesn't feel fun or fair for either party. Riot needs to buff other things than damage, like cooldowns, tank stats and utility, in an effort to combat this.

31 Comments

DoktorKaiser9/6/2018, 8:01:30 PM13 votes

RIOT is busy telling me to go kill myself.

Krully9/6/2018, 9:27:26 PM11 votes

Passives do too much damage too. Dodged a xerath q, but the proc from luden's hit me, which proc'd meteor, which proc'd scorch, which proc'd liandries. About a 1/5 of my health was gone from this

TrikzterzArma9/6/2018, 6:37:44 PM7 votes

[deleted]

Bârd9/6/2018, 11:50:08 PM5 votes

Meanwhile, an Ivern somewhere is struggling to 1v1 a super minion, wondering where all the damage is.

BlueSmurf20189/6/2018, 8:34:39 PM3 votes

and it has since season 3..

Power Cosmic9/6/2018, 8:23:32 PM3 votes

I hope by everything you also mean everyone. I agree. :-)

Phoneixflare9/6/2018, 10:37:15 PM2 votes

gonna have to disagree here, especially in the example you listed with zed versus lb. while both have kill pressure against each other, they can use their skills correctly to dodge each other's skillshots, and thus, their damage, which is a strategic move and I consider an outplay/counterplay. This isnt accounting for items such as zhonyas or GA or abilities like zilean's chronoshift. But watch LL Stylish play zed. he is at such a high skill level that typically losing matchups for zed he can win by his shear skill and mechanical knowledge of his champion. Of course he does a lot of damage. But it doesnt make sense to "slow the game down" or "tune down the damage" and simply "add utility or cc lower cooldowns" when that would make the game dreadfully long and boring, frankly.

I think this is a subjective matter of opinion because I see the damage level right now particularly post several item and champion nerfs as in a good place where counterplay and interactions can still occur. Not every champion needs to do damage, but in order to win a fight or take an objective the enemy team is standing in your way and they have health bars that you need to bring down to 0 before you can proceed freely with your own plans with less/without risk. This is a fundamental aspect of any AoS/MOBA style game. I don't think you realize what 'lowering cooldowns' and 'increasing utility' means regarding balance.

increasing vlad's healing but lowering his burst means he becomes a laning nightmare which can shut out other laners simply by outsustaining them...which has few options for counterplay other than itemization which can make/break certain champs effectiveness (executioners calling/morello). The same thing with buffing ahri's charm cc duration--they tried that and I can tell you in a matchup as ekko versus her that the charm duration felt almost oppressive at times because of how long it is now. there is no counterplay to cc other than a quicksilver sash/cleanse besides dodging the abilities, and in melee range that's hard to do especially with a flash down. So, again, a laning terror for many matchups which makes so many champions useless in the metagame. Changing elements of the game that makes, overall, LESS champions viable is not good/fun/conducive to proper game design.

gabetheguy9/6/2018, 8:53:00 PM2 votes

it's always been like this.

Moody P9/6/2018, 9:28:58 PM2 votes

prove it

Automated Riven9/7/2018, 12:02:26 AM2 votes

Wait, are you talking about in lane? Faker is never going to lose to a bronze zed in lane. On anything. Bronze players don't understand how to lane at all (hell im silver 1 and I can barely replicate the basics) and so you will see a level 1 zed vs a level 6 faker at about 5 minutes.

PhearBunny9/7/2018, 12:53:36 AM2 votes

Why is an ADC running around isolated with a Nocturne in game?

Anywho, Jax built a Trinity+Titanic and 1shotted me, he then proceeded to deal ungodly amounts of sustained damage to the Maokai, and killed him in 3seconds. Balancedddddd

AR URF9/7/2018, 1:05:13 PM2 votes

how about when an assassin mises like 2/4 of his abilities and still kills you?

Nyarlathοtep9/7/2018, 12:20:21 AM1 votes

Ever get right clicked by a Trynd or Yi and think its dumb they kill you in like 3 autos? Ever get ultied by a Zed and die in a second?

True.

Ever go full tank and still get melted like butter by an adc

True BUT unfortunately, its their job. And it wouldnt be a problem if they didnt melt squishies. Last ie changes tried to do that but alas the difference is minuscule.

And, riot seeing this, didn't think to maybe give him some more tank stats and reduce his damage so that he can miss his fear without dying instantly

To be fair they cant just increase his tank stats UNLESS they make clear his class. He looks like an assassin, his ulti is assassin like. However his passive alongside with his e and w promote a skirmish like playstyle. Noc is just a mess.

Leblanc vs Zed. Now, these two will both basically one shot each other. This means that there is one skill check - Their first rotation of spells. One mistake in that spell rotation and you die

Im most likely wrong but, im pretty sure thats what everyone wants when it comes down to assassin duels. Fast and extremely delicate on who lands their spells and who doesnt.

Now, imagine if htey dealt a bit less damage but instead had lower cooldowns

Thats a nono. Spells having no cd is also an arising problem. Yasuo and his 30 sec ulti anyone?

For example, make Ahri deal less damage but buff her charm

Buff her charm? Not sure what are you trying to say here. As in the duration? 2 sec of forced action is extremely potent. Im not sure what would you buff to it.

Lower Zeds burst but increase his mobility and spamability.

Buff his MOBILITY? ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MIND? MOBILITY IS ALREADY A PROBLEM AND YOU WANT (or rather propose an idea) TO BUFF IT?

Lower Kai'sa's and vaynes damage but make it so that they don't die when u look at them in the wrong way.

They are the poster children of glass cannon. Deal absurd amount of dmg in exchange of durability.

MarkedOfKane9/8/2018, 5:52:06 PM1 votes

When you get bursted and almost killed by a level one character, having to blow summoner 4

Chimpanzzi9/7/2018, 5:40:27 AM1 votes

Amen. God speaks to you directly. May this thread be seen and noted by the community, especially the devs themselves.

Phel12/28/2018, 9:33:29 PM1 votes

I agree! every mage is all about hitting one cc ability and just oneshotting you afterwards! it feels awful!

Saezio9/6/2018, 11:17:07 PM1 votes

I think the biggest issue is that tanks are not tanky at all, so they can't stick on carries so carries can just go full offense. Just revamp tank items so a 6 item tank wont die to varus/kaisa/vayne in 5 seconds. Make thornmail deal percent damage of the auto instead of scaling armor like it used to for starters

JimqD9/7/2018, 12:01:52 AM1 votes

What’d you expect they don’t allow men to work on the game until 2:30 so if course it’s gonna be messed up.

Razasin9/7/2018, 5:07:21 PM1 votes

You're misconstruing a certain point. An assassin/adc is meant to deal damage. And because they are damage heavy, they are similarly squishy so that they can't get off their combo. The second you start making them more survivable and deal less damage, you turn them into another playstyle - a fighter. The reason these champs exist is because people enjoy playing burst champs. They like using a combo and deleting another character. Everyone makes mistakes, and that's kind of what makes the game fun in a way. Landing that full combo increases your skill ceiling and missing it causes you to lose. Understanding that fact starts putting in a mentality where you understand risks and rewards. If you have your fizz ulti, you know that you can probably delete that ashe who's pushed up a little too far in bot lane. But the one point I strongly disagree with is when you say that tanks get melted like butter by adcs. If you are ahead and have built dead man's, thornmail, stoneplate, etc etc there is no way an adc is melting you because by the time they get armor pierce you're already too strong. Vice versa, if you have tabis and bamis and an ADC has already built stormrazor and zeal it's gonna be a little tough to not get melted if you make a bad tp play. There aren't perfect balances, but in general this is how certain playstyles and champs work. Burst champs/assassins/adcs are supposed to melt squishies and not die, while tanks are supposed to protect this damage from 100 to 0ing. That's just how it works and it encourages fun playstyles.