An in-depth look at keeping item sets.

Exadian·10/19/2016, 6:19:27 PM·180 votes·8,792 views

"We're currently not planning to bring over the item set creator feature from the legacy client. Basically only an incredibly tiny percentage of players ever used the feature, and we've heard from many players that y'all don't care whether we bring item sets over so long as we continue to support 3rd party item set customization tools like Championify—and we will! "

Only a few hours after this post item set supporters have been flooding the forums, so much so that it has become the main topic of the updates to come. Riot has stated that we should use 3rd party programs to keep using item sets, one they keep bringing up is Championify, this program doesn't even provide the ability to create your own custom item sets. Lets disregard that for a moment though and I'll bring in a quote from Riot TMX.

"When you download League of Legends, we want it to be the complete experience -- you shouldn't have to go digging for other apps and add-ons just to stay competitive.

It's also important that the games you play are stable and secure, and 3rd party applications can potentially affect the stability of the core League experience."

Although now you're telling us the exact opposite, you're encouraging the use of 3rd party programs which can jeopardize the stability of our client. League of Legends has a lot of items and the list continues to grow, with another 4 items on the way. When I was new to this game, going through all the items on the item set page and reading them all was a core part of my learning experience. Creating different item sets that met different needs such as reaching maximum CD on certain champs, then going in game and testing out these item sets to see which one had more success, this was a huge part of me being able to "stay competitive".

It was stated that "When fewer than 1% of players use a thing, you can safely say it's a lower priority than other things." I personally find this extremely hard to believe. Items sets have always been a major profile feature on League of Legends, every player I know uses item sets and there has been far too much retaliation for it to only be 1% of players that use item sets. I personally have an item set for every champion in the game and on top of that most of these item sets have more than one item set inside of them. It helps being able to adapt to my team composition and the enemies composition / build order. I don't have to spend any unneeded time at the shop pulling up an item from the search as any items that are relevant to the champion I'm playing are ready to go. Personally I know every item in this game inside and out, I know their names, stats, and cost. However I know plenty of people who don't know all the items as well as some of us do, which means trying to pull up a certain item without having it planned for ahead of time could be costly or even lead to them forgetting to buy that item.

Here's an All Chat episode which is item related: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGQuzDGMNq4

These are experienced players who can't even tell you the NAME of an item by it's picture, that's not even going into the stats of an item. So how can you expect everyone to perform on the spot and remember exactly what item they need for every situation? Need a QSS for that cc that keeps wrecking you? Well you can't remember the item name, so you have to go and check the magic resist box and go through all the magic resist items to find it WHILE in-game. This is of course assuming you'll recognize the picture or item name when you see it, otherwise you'll have to read every magic resist related item in the game until you find it. Sure this may seem easy to some of us, but not so much to others.

Even more so in the case of newer players who wont know all of these items, creating a set of items will help them learn all of the items better and be prepared to compete on a more competitive level. Having an adc item set that has a Maw set aside for when that LB is focusing you and removing you from team fights, or a top laner having a Zz'rot set aside to help a lane split push.

I'd like to quote this again one more time before I close.

"When fewer than 1% of players use a thing, you can safely say it's a lower priority than other things."

There are plenty of features in the game which are around for the smaller population that use them, such as the color blind feature, chat filter, clubs, mini map / champion portrait positioning, ect. You took the time to add in all these things for a minority of players that use them, but you want to remove item sets from the game which have a major impact on play, from new players to seasoned vets. If you leave newer players to use the recommended build, play will dwindle down and we'll be seeing god awful builds from players who wont ever learn to counter build or try something different. Going to see Last whispers on every adc even when the enemy team has no bonus armor items.

I could sit here and quote all of the other valid points that have been brought up from other players, but I'll leave that for the comment section and for riot to find in all of the other threads that I've read already.

39 Comments

Blàdedancer10/19/2016, 8:22:38 PM25 votes

They better not remove it, I use it for my mains and it's really nice. And I don't want/need to download those add ons

Lovelle10/20/2016, 4:46:12 AM15 votes

Yeah it's a dumb decision, but they make dumb decisions all the time so it doesn't surprise me too much.

If they're going to get rid of item sets entirely, they could at least update the recommended items for all the champions, on every map. Different maps have different items after all. I'm already getting a headache just thinking about having to deal with this.

It's almost as if they're actively trying to get their older playerbase to quit the game.

Speedphoenix10/19/2016, 10:08:24 PM15 votes

1% of players in a game so massive is a LOT of players, how can you put aside a whole 1% of players? Oo

Athenes Lulu10/19/2016, 10:30:14 PM12 votes

I'm not always a fan of just supporting popular opinions and ideas, but this is summed up pretty well.

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

PaladinNO10/20/2016, 4:17:40 AM10 votes

These are experienced players who can't even tell you the NAME of an item by it's picture, that's not even going into the stats of an item.

As someone who consider myself an experienced (support) player, there are a few items that I really struggle with.

item 3512 item 3504 item 3114 and sometimes item 3050

I know what they do, in as much as I know when and under what circumstances I should get them, I...just can't seem to remember their names. The fact that I do struggle with remembering any names aside, I can immediately (mostly) recall any item's use by a look at its icon.

So if I can have them placed in a custom itemset, spending time searching for it would be of great benefit.

Btw, is there anyone familiar with the 3rd party itemset program called "Championify"? There was said it would be kept support for that, but I only want to know one thing: can I use my existing itemset file with that program, or would I have to remake them all (again >-<) to still have custom (configurable!) itemsets?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgXYh223480

R1810/20/2016, 3:45:43 AM9 votes

This actually may cause me to lose games :/

Silverjust10/19/2016, 8:45:02 PM7 votes

thank you

Tattersall10/19/2016, 9:00:20 PM6 votes

This is a good post [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Harvey Rabbit10/19/2016, 11:33:46 PM6 votes

Very well said.

notice me Sin pi10/20/2016, 2:35:49 AM6 votes

the bigger problem for removing the item sets is transition for new players. When i was new to this game, I learned items thru this feature by putting together items to get a customized build. And I cant imagine new players learning the items without this feature.

Rito uses 3rd party as an excuse but i doubt a player who just started playing for a week, or even 2 months, would be aware of existence of such 3rd party programs

i started playing about an year ago, and i still didnt know that championify existed at all until riot posted their excuse

Nami in Bush10/20/2016, 3:34:06 AM6 votes

let me download addons so they can ban me for 3rd party programs then say "tough luck" no thanks.

Demonsolder2110/20/2016, 7:47:13 AM6 votes

Thank you for the very well written post.

Dannikins10/20/2016, 2:11:40 PM6 votes

Well said.

boatjesus10/20/2016, 8:09:13 PM5 votes

How am I supposed to remember my build for Top Sion, ADC Sion, Jungle Sion, Mid Sion, and Support Sion if they remove item sets?

Doctor Fail10/20/2016, 8:00:29 PM5 votes

Whether you use the item sets or not, their removal is a step backwards in terms of general game accessibility and user convenience, no new features the client brings with it at launch could make up for the loss of what I consider to be a core functionality of a game with a store system as bloated, clunky, and reliant on fake word memorization as League's is. If you're going to remove this functionality, I'd straight up rather use the old client even with its bugs and holes.

This is to say nothing about the new user experience. New players, unless they come from a different moba, have enough on their plate with having to learn core moba mechanics in a competitive and often toxic environment. There's no reason to force them into picking between taking a single and often lackluster and overly rigid recommend path or memorizing a changing roster of fantasy item names (or forcing them to find them slowly on a bloated list.) To do so is basically removing a bandage after you've applied it.

1% of players might not sound like a lot, but Riot claimed to have about one hundred million monthly players just a month ago. One percent of one hundred million is still a lot of people.

RocketRelm10/20/2016, 3:30:00 PM5 votes

"When fewer than 1% of players use a thing, you can safely say it's a lower priority than other things."

Sadface for every main of champion with a less than 1% play rate.

That said, I really think we need some kind of plan to bring this issue to riot's attention and get actual riot responses. We're at the point where we have fairly large support group, but if we only circle jerk on the boards then riot's gonna go ahead with this.

I also think we should hesitate to accept an answer of "it doesn't work immediately, we'll get to it Soon™", even though this might be the best we can get. Tribunal is still Soon™, after all.

DarkRitual10/19/2016, 11:50:50 PM3 votes

I am hoping item sets will remain a client feature when the switch is made. I would also like to know what % of players use item sets by server/region. Is there a trend of them being used more on some servers but less on others?

Champion Skin10/20/2016, 12:27:25 AM2 votes

It would also be nice if they allowed you to use the standard item set as a base for your custom item set (as it would make it quicker and easier most of the time as they usually aren't that far off)

EvilShadowlord3/10/2017, 11:36:51 PM1 votes

How riot's mind work: "We have a very good game! How we f*ck it up? Oh! Let's make it worse! Yes, great idea boss! Let's remove features! Yea!!!"

ItsOrval10/20/2016, 4:19:31 AM1 votes

Did Rito know that most of their players dont play anymore and are bots?

cocacolalips10/20/2016, 7:20:44 PM1 votes

Seems to me some people just don't know how to use the current shopping interface efficiently.

Here how you do it.

  • 1- know what you want to buy before you recall
  • 2- once at the fountain, open the shop, click an item on the recommended page that has the component you need ex: amplifying tome
  • 3- on the right screen, the component shows every upgrade path
  • 4- buy either the component or one of its upgrades
  • 5- it takes several seconds for your character to recall and for the fountain to heal you, the above steps take maybe 1-2-3 seconds, it's plenty enough time to do your shopping and not waste any time
Auroramancer10/20/2016, 8:33:06 PM1 votes

There are plenty of features in the game which are around for the smaller population that use them, such as the color blind feature, chat filter, clubs, mini map / champion portrait positioning, ect.

You bring up all these points, but forget that their cost of labor are incredibly low.

Not to mention, the color blind feature and minimap/champ portrait positioning are in-game features, not client side.

And it's the client that is being updated. They have to commit resources for creating a brand new Item Set generator.

I can see why they don't want to do it. It services a diminutive amount of players, while generally being disliked, and problematic to use. It's a lose-lose for Riot.

There was a time in the game when Item Sets didn't exist, and we were able to play the game just fine. Losing Item Sets will not break the game for us.

Battlecast Sona10/20/2016, 8:51:50 PM1 votes

Where were all these people talking about how awesome item sets were when they weren't in jeopardy?

I don't think Riot has much interest in supporting a feature that something like .5% of the community uses regularly (especially when a lot of people who use custom item sets would RATHER use an aggregator like Championify to keep their item sets automatically up to date rather than having to manually update all of their item sets whenever balance changes happen)....

Like, Riot absolutely shouldn't port the current item set creator UI into the new client. If they're going to include it, they should release an entirely new one that isn't crap to use instead of just porting the crappy system over because a small portion of the community has decided to defend it, ESPECIALLY since a large number of people who utilize item sets will be COMPLETELY unaffected by the change (since under the hood support will likely remain identical, leaving third party programs unaffected.)

pigsqueaks10/20/2016, 9:17:21 PM1 votes

They should at least allow you to keep sets you have already created

MonkeyMadness10/21/2016, 4:56:40 AM1 votes

Items sets have always been a major profile feature on League of Legends

Sorry, but this is categorically incorrect. I forget the exact date when custom item sets came into existence, but I promise you they were not here for season 2 and at least part of season 3. If I had to guess, I'd say they were added around season 4, but like I said, I don't remember exactly when. Ergo, stop making these statements. Custom item sets was NEVER part of the game, and Riot only added it after a 3rd party custom item set application became rather popular. Also, and this is very important, the removal of custom item sets does not affect gameplay whatsoever. In fact, I would argue that learning the items and learning to build flexibly actually enhances gameplay over reinforcing strict build paths.

These are experienced players who can't even tell you the NAME of an item by it's picture, that's not even going into the stats of an item.

Ok, so some of those items were new or recently updated at the time this video was made (ie phantom dancer icon and corrupting potion). As for the Oracle Alteration for the Sweeping Lens, if you need to find this, you just open the shop, click on your trinket, and boom. Done. There it is. As for the others, most of them got enough of the item's name to find it in the search. Also, literally everyone knows what a BotRK is, so you don't even have to know Bilgewater Cutlass. You can just search the final item and then click on the pieces. Either way, I kinda found this video shameful. The only one I didn't know IMMEDIATELY was the Oracle's Alteration, because I always just refer to it as "upgraded red trinket" and I search for it in the manner described above. I can tell you right now that for virtually every item in the game, I know it's name, approximate stats, passive/active effects, and build path. For example, Duskblade of Draktharr gives a good chunk of AD (~70), 5% movespeed, and 10 armor pen. It applies a delayed burst of physical damage on hit that scales with target's missing HP with a rather long cooldown. It builds from a Serrated Dirk and a BF sword. You'll have to take me at my word that I didn't look that up, unfortunately. You should be able to do this on the fly in game, as it will allow you to predict enemy build paths and thus have a better idea of how to counter them.

badooga10/21/2016, 6:49:56 PM1 votes

{quoted}

Hey guys, just want to confirm that we’ve seen this boards post and other threads and we’re having more conversations about this internally. We’ll have a more detailed update soon after we talk it out more.

In the meantime, just know that we’re not deleting the item sets you make using the legacy client—they’ll still work no matter which client you use to get into game. And no matter what our internal conversations come to, there’s still no way that we’ll reprioritize a built-in item set creator above other features (like spectate) to develop before the end of the client update open beta.

We'll probably come back next week with a dev corner post that shares what we've come to.

GodRage11/17/2016, 9:10:40 AM1 votes

Maybe 99% of players are inactive since too long? This "1%", is it 1% of last 30 days actives players? or is it "item set users / total of registered users"?

Ziggyninja11/22/2016, 5:58:02 PM1 votes

I guess I launch that legacy client and make the item sets quick! Also, I don't get why rito would take out this option? All the item sets are localized to the player's computer, so it takes up no space etc on their end. I'm thinking that the reason why only 1% use item sets is because there is no tutorial on how to make them. I remember being really new to this game and not knowing what to do with them.

SawnMC12/4/2016, 7:24:10 AM1 votes

Speaking for myself I can surely say I'm gonna spend a lot more time playing SMITE that will still have the item set than league of legends. This is is just ridiculous, I was waiting 2 years for item sets to be stored in the servers, because more than once I had been outside on a LAN party for the fun of it and I couldn't use them there and now you tell us you will remove them completely? I have built item sets for every champ, over 1 hundred of them 5 times, for every delete that has happened and that was infuriating enough!

EpikAngel12/9/2016, 11:45:37 AM1 votes

Lazy RIOT. They have to rewrite the Item system from Java to whatever the new code language is used in the current client, witch is a pain in the arse, but the lazyness is toooo strong.

The Red Nova12/30/2016, 1:13:49 PM1 votes

Here's a post I left on another thread. I'll just copy and paste it here so you can all see it here. But basically my summary is at the bottom just before the quote of the rioter that posted on that thread, Plus the edit I made to it:

I don't know why you thought item sets carried over from the legacy client. I played characters like Sejuani, Leona, Sona, Soraka, Teemo, and Evelynn just to test what you said. On the newer client, these items sets that I HAD on the legacy client did not seem to carry over onto my characters, so what you stated in that post was either a lie or something is wrong with the client on my end. Which is ridiculous, because the item sets worked after starting up the legacy client and making sure my item sets were still there. Also, I fail to see how the new client would recognize an item set from the old client, when the new client itself doesn't have item sets as a feature in it. Or hey, maybe i'm just a noob at programming and my education in IT hasn't really taught me anything. Regardless, the proof of this not working is in my experience of it not working, at least in my case.

Also, I tried just logging into the legacy client to fix it, and it seemed to work for a while, but just this morning i tried logging in,(this morning as in not long before this very post) and it kept saying the kernel stopped working and it's gonna close, so I suppose you guys got tired of people using the workaround so they could continue to use this feature and fixed the Legacy Client so that it wouldn't work either and now people are forced to use your new crappy version of the client. Well I'd like to state some things: -Dota2 already has a system of customizing item sets, and they can do it WHILE IN-GAME. -Dota2's heroes are already ALL UNLOCKED and nobody has to waste time working to get their favorite hero unlocked. Making them pretty might be another matter, but that's fine, as long as they can play them. -Heroes of the Storm doesn't even HAVE items in the game, just abilities and little perk things for their characters, which people can review and go over outside of matches.

You guys at Riot might think this is just a little thing that you can overlook, and you might think league is too big to bother with something like this, but i can guarantee you WILL lose people over this. Your current item set thing had been improved on by another (More difficult/competitive[yes, i know you hate to admit it, but Dota2 is more difficult/competitive]) game. Item sets could be switched up and customized on the go, in a match, and then saved so that the current set for that specific hero carried over into future matches. Then customized and saved further. If you guys really wanted to continue to be competitive with these other MOBA's then you should work to make the features you have BETTER, not remove certain features, even if you think less people use them.... Not even temporarily. Ya shoulda stuck with the legacy client until this new one had all of the old features implemented into it. THEN improved them, if you were even going to.

In summary, this 'decision about discussions' is an extremely stupid thing, a bad way to do business, and also a horrible excuse. Get your act together.

[Edit: Added the quote so no words can be changed. You said when 'OR IF' you rebuild it. So that does mean you're not excluding the possibility of not keeping it. The argument I made above should be reason enough: Your competitors have it, so you should too.]

{quoted}

Nobody is deleting anything. This whole conversation is about the client update, which requires us to rebuild every feature from scratch. So we're talking about when or if we rebuild it, (before or after certain other features) not just willy nilly deleting the ones you already have.

Anyways, more details coming soon!

Master Yi 6541/28/2017, 11:41:15 PM1 votes

WTF? Seriously, I cannot update my item sets now to include new and changed items. Pull your head out developers, bring them back!

AIDS IN MY CASK2/5/2017, 12:46:24 PM1 votes

KEEP IT PLZ

Dreamtails2/22/2017, 2:45:36 PM1 votes

#makeitemsetsgreatagain

Fella Air3/8/2017, 5:44:12 AM1 votes

I honestly thought this was a bug, the fact that they're saying it's a feature is truly, truly outrageous. And with all the stuff I'm seeing on the forums about it, it's pretty clear that either 1% is still a lot of people or it's way more than 1%. Me and everyone I know who plays this game uses the item sets, because the default item lists for each champion are kind of... well, they're not very good. To my knowledge they still (Or at the very least did last time I played him) recommend talisman of ascension on nasus. They're so bad I honestly think they might be trolls. Like, really. Talisman. On Nasus? What... just... what. And another thing is you waste a lot of time in nexus having to individually search for each item you want to build if it doesn't happen to be on your champion's default list.

Very sad if they remove this.