The new dragons!

Neo Metalsonicv2·5/14/2016, 4:19:48 PM·14 votes·1,948 views

Current state:

Currently the ocean dragon (10% of health + mana recovered every 18/12/6 seconds) and infernal dragon (+8/16/24% AD and AP) are much more powerful than Cloud dragon (+15/30/45 movement speed out of combat) and mountain dragon (10/20/30% extra true damage to epic monsters and turrets). I've had quite a number of games that I won in late because my team had 2 infernal dragons and the enemy a mountain dragon and a cloud dragon. I would assume other people would have had similar experiences this patch.

Main issues:

The 15/30/45 extra movement speed out of combat is just very bad. There is no other way to put it other than that it gives you not a power increase at all like 10% regeneration or 8% more AD + AP would give you. It might even be worse than a kill, the Cloud dragon buff. When Cloud dragon is up I often see people ignoring it and going for a turret or not contesting it if it would be risky (since a kill is more valueable than cloud is at the moment).

Previous 2nd dragon buff in 6.8 (the one which gave you more damage to turrets) was more useful. 10% is not noticeable and doesn't really enable you to split push, or push turrets down more effectively but the 2nd dragon from 6.8 did enable you because the damage done to turrets was higher. Even with 2 mountain dragons I still say the old buff with 2 dragons was more useful.

Suggestions:

For cloud dragon a permanent movement speed buff in and out of combat would make it more competitive. 4/8/12% increased movement speed would make it much more attractive to contest and more on par with ocean and infernal dragon. This is not the only solution though, making the bonus work in combat would also make this dragon more attractive to get.

I'm not sure about mountain dragon. Making your turrets receive less damage from the enemy would make mountain dragon better. It's difficult to get this one properly because the other 3 dragons just give a stat of some kind but mountain dragon is only effective in very specific scenarios. I think by this nature the mountain dragon will always be the worst of the 4.

19 Comments

masterdragon4815/14/2016, 5:22:47 PM9 votes

Big Edit: I realize now that my infernal dragon section needs a kinda big change, and I'll document it here: Instead of a % increase damage to champions (which would massively buff tanks) the infernal dragon should give % increased damage based on bonus ad and ap.

What this will do is allow the % increased damage to scale with the damage dealers it was meant to scale with without buffing any of the areas I mention that the dragon buff shouldn't be buffing.


I agree that Cloud Dragon is too weak. Well, more specifically, its power is very difficult to understand and I don't think it has enough of am impact when compared to the other dragons. It isn't worthless (at least 3 of them aren't, kappa) but whenever I get one my first thoughts are 1. At least the other team did not get it, 2. More true damage for that elder dragon buff, and 3. I can get outta base faster now.

It does need changes, I'm just not sure your suggestion is the right idea; Riot just removed boot enchantments because the only one being purchased was the increased move speed one. Their reasoning was that the general increase in movement speed was resulting in more skill shots being missed than was intended, etc so they wanted champions overall moving slower again. Your suggestion would basically revert that. Something is definitely needed to make cloud a little more attractive, but that isn't it. Maybe slow reduction, but that could get out of hand; I also wouldn't mind some tenacity, that stat is REALLY hard to come by these days.

Also, if the two dragons that need nerfs get them, its possible that the cloud dragon will actually end up being powerful enough as it is; its problem right now could just be that it is getting overshadowed by better, unbalanced options.


Ocean Dragon is overpowered at the moment because you always get the heal. The pbe nerfs to it (making it so a slightly adjusted heal occurs only when you haven't taken damage for a certain amount of time) will really help to bring it in line. I don't have much more to say about this one; Riot already dealt with it.


The Infernal Dragon is completely overpowered and needs to be changed. It is suppose to be the dragon you take when you want better combat vs champions. At least, that is what we were made to believe. And that is certainly what increased ad and ap does. But it also increases your minion pushing capabilities, your jungle clear capabilities, tower pushing, and epic monster killing potential. This dragon is literally a jack of all trades dragon.

To make matters worse, in addition to it giving its slayers a whole bunch more power than just killing champions, it isn't even particularly effective at doing that. On hit build champions don't gain much from the Infernal Dragon buff because they aren't building a lot of ad or ap to deal their damage. In addition, additional ap makes support champions and healers more effective at keeping their allies alive/ providing sustain. So basically the dragon is failing at doing what it is suppose to be doing while giving a whole lot of free power in areas it shouldn't be. It, by itself, is overstepping onto ocean dragon and mountain dragons roles.

To fix that, I suggest that the Infernal Dragon be changed to 8/16/24% (or whatever numbers are deemed appropriate) increased damage to champions. This way, it isn't giving random power to champions that snowball leads terribly and, at the same time, it is giving an appropriate power boost to champions building items like witts end and sheen items who's power isn't amplified with the current Infernal Dragon.


I actually really like the Mountain Dragon and don't want it to change at all. With 2 of these babies, I was able to solo baron playing Shyvana with one (okay 2, almost forgot about the jungle item) lifesteal items and come out above 70% health. Its damage to towers is also very noticable and its in a way that is more fair than the previous second dragon.

The previous second dragon had the problem of making anyone a good splitpusher due to the damage not being tied to the damage output of the champion. That is (was) straight overpowered. The point of the dragons now is to amplify the strengths of a team and fight/contest dragons your team wants over others. If you have a teamfight team, for example, mountain dragons are less appealing because by the time you guys are hitting towers, you have ace'd the other team (making that extra damage not useless but less important). As opposed to the jax or teemo that stays top all game threatening objectives (where mountain would be much more useful).

If infernal dragon were to be nerfed, I could see no changes being done to the mountain dragon. I think it is just fine the way it is.

runedara5/14/2016, 5:13:00 PM6 votes

Yah wind and earth dragons are really bad if your behind. Think the earth should give +5/10/15% to bonuse mr/am. So tanky teams have something.

Digital Badger5/14/2016, 8:56:01 PM3 votes

I sort of like that the dragon's are not 100% balanced with themselves, as it forces you to pay more attention to which one is up next, and prioritize objectives.

For example, post winning a team fight:

"Do we take tower, or fight dragon?" "Which dragon is it?" "Cloud" "Focus tower then."

-Or-

"Do we take tower, or fight dragon?" "Which dragon is it?" "Ocean" "Focus dragon then."

Gives a little bit more diversity in gameplay decisions rather than just "Stall until we have Dragon 4 and then push all lanes to win." Not to mention that the decision to take Baron or Elder Dragon (or even new Rift Herald) is not insignificant, since they each give unique benefits that have to be weighed on the fly.

Foxstep5/14/2016, 7:02:48 PM1 votes

Movment speed is a reaaaally strong stat. They need to be careful with this drake.

MunchCrunchLunch5/14/2016, 6:26:23 PM1 votes

they need to make it out of combat with champions. not everything

dim2a5/14/2016, 11:06:18 PM1 votes

I for one like dragons not being of all the same strength. More interesting strategic choices this way as to whether contest/do it or go for other objectives/farm.

XeroKimo5/14/2016, 11:11:48 PM1 votes

Well Riot's intention with cloud dragon was to help with rotations, not to help with combat, tho I dunno how it's like in the higher levels of play, I'm sure they take advantage of the increase movement speed out of combat to rotate and roam

The Yetii Rider5/15/2016, 1:05:27 AM1 votes

"Infernal Drake isn't even that good at making you kill champs".

Lol wut. You name a single champ type (on hit) that doesn't benefit from increased AD and AP. And even that isn't true. Kayle, Teemo and Kog'maw all have on-hit damage that scales off AP. Master Yi's true damage scales off AD.

Pretty much the only champions who have on-hit damage that doesn't scale off AD or AP is Warwick (full VGU soon), Mundo (doesn't build on-hit) and Kindred (fuck Kindred).

Everyone else benefits from Infernal Drake.