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Move % Bonus HP from Cinderhulk to Warmogs

Zirzon·4/26/2015, 6:13:38 PM·147 votes·8,157 views

Just wondering what everyone things about moving the bonus health from the cinderhulk items to the original "I want a ton of health" item .

Personally, I don't feel that the bonus scaling health makes sense to be tied into a jungle-only item. AP champs have to grant them % bonus, does roughly the same thing for AD, yet only the current similar tank item requires you to have a certain summoner spell as a prerequisite.

Besides, I thought the main idea behind giving junglers an item similar to was to improve clear times, not improve their overall scaling. If Riot feels that tanks need such an item to improve late game scaling, it should be added separately from the jungle in order to benefit the entire tank class.

I think Warmog's is a good fit for this effect. I rarely seen it built any more, and moving the health scaling here would, in my opinion, better align it to the "ton of health" theme.

TL;DR: look at the title....

So, what does everyone think?

Edit:

So, of course we would have to tweak a lot of numbers to rebalance the items. Many stats would need to be shifted around. We would have to look at Warmogs current passive, and see if it could coexist with the added % bonus health. This part of the argument has to do with balancing this idea.

However, I'm what I'm wanting to do is to give these items back a core identity. Cinderhulk for jungle clear and sustained damage in fight, Warmog's for mega-tanks. Currently, Cinderhulk's identity is being OP for everything a tank could possibly want. On the other hand, Warmog's identity has been somewhat lost in my opinion. Riot can make anything not OP by nerfing numbers, but I'm hoping to discuss whether these changes will give them a better role in the game.

Thank you all for your input!

116 Comments

LittleBlast4/26/2015, 6:31:02 PM54 votes

I think they should both have it, but as unique passives so they cant stack with eachother.

ThePlasticSpork4/26/2015, 7:08:55 PM15 votes

The jungle item has it because it was explicitly jungle tanks that were having problems.

Also, infinity edge is nothing like a rabadons or cinderhulk for AD champions, because if it were, AD assassins would be picking it up left and right. Mages get a ridiculously powerful multiplier like Rabadons because they specifically NEED that multiplier to be viable - if they couldn't get absurd amounts of AP in the 600-800 range, they would be useless. Similarly, jungle tanks NEED the ridiculously strong multiplier from cinderhulk to be viable - while lane tanks (Maokai, Cho'Gath, Hecarim) generally do not.

Seviang4/26/2015, 6:53:15 PM11 votes

They should most certainly not move it to warmog's. People forget that top lane tanks were really strong in the meta before Cinderhulk, and this would give them access to that scaling without giving up flash or a combat summoner. What they should do is nerf Cinderhulk and the red smite so that the scaling is both less oppressive and only beneficial for junglers.

LilxPaprika4/26/2015, 7:17:49 PM8 votes

I'm surprised it took this long for this suggestion to be made. I feel like its been in the back of everyone's minds I'd of made it and certainly thought of it. But the fact that warmogs had just recently gotten its HP nerfed from 1k, I figured there was no use bringing it up. I figured it was up to riot to decide whether to go back on their changes or not.

I'm glad this is getting noticed, thought I was the only one.

I would give cinderhulk 10% CDR again or tenacity instead. It would just get the CDR on the back end when completing the item instead of using kindle gem.

Narasimha4/26/2015, 7:10:53 PM7 votes

The major problem is that it turns Warmogs from a tanky item into a super ultra mega tanky item. Its synergy with itself is just too strong. You'd have to lower the health of Warmogs, or remove its other passive, and neither seems particularly appealing.

GundayMonday4/27/2015, 4:26:34 PM3 votes

They should swap out the passive health regen from warmogs and bring back force of nature.

CubedJustice4/26/2015, 7:29:33 PM3 votes

The problem with moving it to an anybody item is that it nerfs junglers, but buffs hecarim top, shyvana top, etc, which is the real problem.

Messaiga4/26/2015, 7:51:23 PM3 votes

I think two things need to happen for something like this to work:

1: Warmogs is an item for regen, why not rework or make another item more suited to be the health multiplication item? I've had the idea of reworking Zeke's Herald to suit this since it is rarely used anymore.

2: If Cinderhulk's focus is placed off of the bonus HP, then it needs to be a get tanky fast item (just as the other jungle items barring Devourer are meant to do, giving early damage quickly). I'd say replacing the bonus HP with some CDR and increasing the health on it could do.

Bârd4/26/2015, 8:03:08 PM3 votes

Put it on both, but as a unique passive, so they dont stack.

Flubberwuffer4/26/2015, 10:52:45 PM2 votes

Warmog's used to be my favorite item before they nerfed it, now it's barely worth getting on most champions except for the super tanks (Mundo, Maoki, Nautalis, ect.

Llanite4/27/2015, 1:36:29 AM2 votes

League of warmorg.

Good old day.

Silents4294/27/2015, 3:52:02 AM2 votes

Besides, I thought the main idea behind giving junglers an item similar to was to improve clear times, not improve their overall scaling. If Riot feels that tanks need such an item to improve late game scaling, it should be added separately from the jungle in order to benefit the entire tank class.

But that was what tanks needed. They didn't just clear like ass they were just in a bad place in general, this fixed the clear and brought them out from the rubble and made them viable again. I don't like the idea of this change, unless they found another way to allow the Cinderhulk make tanks stay viable, and just improving clear speed is not going to do it alone.

Celeste Benal4/27/2015, 3:43:58 PM2 votes

I think OP is right. It should be moved to warmog's.

TeemoLikeCookies4/26/2015, 8:52:58 PM2 votes

Warmogs? Gone? U say wut m8? DrMundo