Boards›Gameplay

The Complain Train

Kelb4n·2/15/2018, 6:00:29 PM·3 votes·335 views

I wanted to be a little bit more part of the general LoL community, so I spent a few days on the boards, but I gotta say: HOLY SH** ARE PLAYERS WHINY! So, wherever I go, I see players complain about champions, roles and all the other shit and I wanted to counteract this huge complain train and give you guys at Riot a little credit for some of the things that players complain about so often. I will try to only say my honest opinion, so you will not see things in here that I am not okay with myself (which there are, I'm not gonna lie).

Champions in Game General I really like how every new champ breaks the game in one way or another. Riot really likes pushing their game rules to their limits, seeing what they can give champs to make them really unique. Stealing summoner spells? Could work. Why do champs have to recall? Give them a mobile shop. Do we really need walls? Kayn says no. If you don't want this kind of innovative champion design, find yourself am FPS or something. Nobody and nothing is "broken" there. But I find it much more fun if every champion is really unique and has some kind of mechanic that requires the enemy to re-think some part of his strategy. Zoe I don't play mid lane, so this will be a short one, but she looks SO exciting. And I know why many players complain about her insane damage potential, but really, if you play Zoe and you see a carry who is not protected by allies, that HAS to be a free kill! I really like how her E-Q-combo works, and I am also really happy that you give the players the last bit of counterplay that they deserve in my opinion with the cleanse-ability of her drousy (please don't nerf her to the ground). Yasuo I really like his playstyle of having to go in to actually deal damage, but being greatly rewarded to do so. I like how his wind wall is a pretty avoidable and baitable ability and really rewards good predictions (which is always the most exciting thing to watch in montages imo). Teemo Does anyone still complain about Teemo or is that just a meme that won't die? I really don't find it as bad to play against a Teemo. Of course, he is a strong 1v1 champion with his blind, and his shrooms can be really annoying if you find them when you are low, but he has no real chance if you catch him 2v1 or even 2v2, as long as you have a sweeper to clear his shrooms at the start of a fight. Playing as Teemo also feels pretty exciting with the shrooms because it is always a mind game of "how can I make my enemy step on it". Nunu I agree that he was over-buffed initially. But he is not really busted anymore with the hotfix. The fact that his W gives AP now makes it feel less bad when your ADC is dead or not there in a fight because you can also use it on mages. Also, the on-hit damage gives him the opportunity to do things after the initial W-E besides just absorbing skillshots. While he is still a one dimensional champ, I don't think that he is overtuned. He is actually pretty well balanced atm.

Roles Support I really like how Riot manages to make support a role that has a good impact on the game, over the whole course of it, from early, over mid up to late game. Many people complain about supports being too strong nowadays, but really, would you wanna play a role that gets less gold than anyone else in the game while still being the least impactfull in the early game? I would not really like to do that. Top lane People also rant about top lane, and while I understand that bruisers are often out classed by tanks, when I imagine a perfect late game, I want a strong tank in front of my team to protect and engage. If nobody is playing tanks, they should have a decently high win rate when they are played. Or in other words: If you play something that your team needs you should have more success than if you play pure carries. A good team shall not contain 4 carries and a support. Even if the support was a tanky support, he could never be a true tank because he has less gold and levels. ADCs I don't believe that, what many players say, ADCs deal too much damage. Any damage dealer in the game can deal more initial damage than any ADC in the game, be it a full-damage diver, an assassin or a mage. The thing is, ADCs don't stop dealing damage after blowing any important cooldowns, because they don't really have any as AA-based champions. And that's great! You need someone in your team who doesn't stop dealing damage after the initial burst, or else everyone who survives the engage will survive the fight. Also, they are not too squishy, as some ADC players might say. They have to be squishy, or in other ways, they have to be 1-shot-able, in order to make them play safe. If they were allowed to play very risky without much of a death-thread, they would shred through the whole enemy team. This way though, if they go one step too far, they die and their team lost the fight (except of course the enemy ADC also gets one-shot). This makes ADCs an exciting role to play, as you have to watch every step, as well as to play against, since you shall always look for the opportunity to catch and 1-shot them. Assassins As I just mentioned, ADCs have to be 1-shot-able, so a role that takes the risk of going into melee range of the enemy team to fulfill that job of 1-shooting the enemy ADC feels like a needed and well placed role. As long as Assassins don't deal enough damage to 1-shot bruisers but enough to 1-shot ADCs and mages that don't build defense (or only build defensive boots), they are in a pretty good spot in general imo. Also, do you know how satisfying it feels to watch an ADC melt in the hands of a fed Zed? It really does.

General Towers I don't really understand the recent rant about towers. If they are too tanky, the game drags on for ever. If they are too squishy, they die upon one push with the ally still under them. If they deal too much damage, dives become impossible; and if they deal not enough, dives become risk-free. There will always be players who will say that towers are unbalanced in one direction or the other, but I think Riot does a pretty decent job at this. LCS I really like watching LCS, and the fact that it engages players into playing also makes balancing around it a bit a thing that makes sense for Riot to do.

P.S.: Besides that, the lore team does EXCEPTIONAL work! Really. Luv U guys! #Nohomo

5 Comments

ModKnightsKemplar2/15/2018, 7:04:53 PM2 votes

Whoo! Let's hear it for some positive feedback!

I agree with most of your point. While small tweaks are necessary all the time, I think it's a really fun experience overall. Riot does a good job, imo.

HalcyonDweller2/15/2018, 6:40:23 PM1 votes

I respect the validity of the things that you are pleased with about those characters and roles. However I have some rebuttals:

  1. The only real problem I have with Zoe is that her Q is supposed to be dodgeable, but she can just sit back and fish for successful E's until she gets one and then she can pull off a high-damage Q with no actual counterplay because you've been drugged and forced to stand there and watch it happen to you. This is incredibly frustrating to experience, and it's not fair in the least.

  2. Yasuo's wind-wall is not skill expressive. It's a crutch. Riot should make it more skill expressive by reducing the duration and making it so that a Yasuo player can't just block something as it hits him by aiming the wind-wall in the completely wrong fucking direction.

  3. Teemo is mostly a meme now. But he's definitely infuriating to deal with. The only thing I think is wrong with Teemo is how much damage mushrooms can do. For something that opponents have no practical means of detecting and avoiding while traveling in-between objectives, these mushrooms deal too much damage.

  4. The nunu changes were fine IMO. I agree that he was overtuned but that has since been fixed. The real problem with Nunu is the fact that his E is a point and click spell that applies a massive slow. There is no counterplay to this ability, and it's incredibly frustrating to be forced to just bend over and take it.

  5. I agree support needed improving, it's good that this happened. However Marksmen didn't lose any power in exchange for having the role that helps them become suddenly much more powerful. This is why there is such imbalance in power between bottom lane and the rest of them map.

  6. I think you misunderstood why people are frustrated about top-lane. They want to feel like their choices in lane are impactful. When you don't really get to affect the game and many games are won or lost long before you get to participate on the map, it doesn't feel very fair. This is made worse by the fact that tanks get to be impactful late game, but playing bruisers and fighters sets you up for a loss against your opponent if they pick a tank and buy bramble-vest then you're fucked.

  7. The problem isn't that they just do too much damage. It is that their damage comes online earlier than anybody else's now. So for a while they do more damage than other people. On top of that they can out-burst the classes that are supposed to be dealing burst damage, which should not be the way of things.

  8. I agree, assassins are in a relatively okay place in the meta right now.

  9. Yeah I guess I agree that towers are relatively okay right now. I do appreciate the complexity of the situation, Riot has to balance it delicately between long games and short games.

  10. LCS - I'm fine with Riot balancing things around LCS, but if they make changes that genuinely ruin the game, like making a character who has flashy plays too powerful (cough cough Lee Sin favoritism cough) it warps the game for everyone else and makes it a lot less fun to play. I just want them to do a better job of balancing the changes they make so that the characters and mechanics they buff for LCS don't ruing the game for casual players like myself.

  11. The lore team is great. And saying "no homo" was completely unnecessary and implies that being "homo" is somehow bad. Keep that bigoted shit off the boards nobody wants to read it.

SpiritOfOdysseus2/15/2018, 11:47:28 PM1 votes

{quoted}

I wanted to be a little bit more part of the general LoL community, so I spent a few days on the boards, but I gotta say: HOLY SH** ARE PLAYERS WHINY! So, wherever I go, I see players complain about champions, roles and all the other shit and I wanted to counteract this huge complain train and give you guys at Riot a little credit for some of the things that players complain about so often. I will try to only say my honest opinion, so you will not see things in here that I am not okay with myself (which there are, I'm not gonna lie).

Champions in Game General I really like how every new champ breaks the game in one way or another. Riot really likes pushing their game rules to their limits, seeing what they can give champs to make them really unique. Stealing summoner spells? Could work. Why do champs have to recall? Give them a mobile shop. Do we really need walls? Kayn says no. If you don't want this kind of innovative champion design, find yourself am FPS or something. Nobody and nothing is "broken" there. But I find it much more fun if every champion is really unique and has some kind of mechanic that requires the enemy to re-think some part of his strategy. Zoe I don't play mid lane, so this will be a short one, but she looks SO exciting. And I know why many players complain about her insane damage potential, but really, if you play Zoe and you see a carry who is not protected by allies, that HAS to be a free kill! I really like how her E-Q-combo works, and I am also really happy that you give the players the last bit of counterplay that they deserve in my opinion with the cleanse-ability of her drousy (please don't nerf her to the ground). Yasuo I really like his playstyle of having to go in to actually deal damage, but being greatly rewarded to do so. I like how his wind wall is a pretty avoidable and baitable ability and really rewards good predictions (which is always the most exciting thing to watch in montages imo). Teemo Does anyone still complain about Teemo or is that just a meme that won't die? I really don't find it as bad to play against a Teemo. Of course, he is a strong 1v1 champion with his blind, and his shrooms can be really annoying if you find them when you are low, but he has no real chance if you catch him 2v1 or even 2v2, as long as you have a sweeper to clear his shrooms at the start of a fight. Playing as Teemo also feels pretty exciting with the shrooms because it is always a mind game of "how can I make my enemy step on it". Nunu I agree that he was over-buffed initially. But he is not really busted anymore with the hotfix. The fact that his W gives AP now makes it feel less bad when your ADC is dead or not there in a fight because you can also use it on mages. Also, the on-hit damage gives him the opportunity to do things after the initial W-E besides just absorbing skillshots. While he is still a one dimensional champ, I don't think that he is overtuned. He is actually pretty well balanced atm.

Roles Support I really like how Riot manages to make support a role that has a good impact on the game, over the whole course of it, from early, over mid up to late game. Many people complain about supports being too strong nowadays, but really, would you wanna play a role that gets less gold than anyone else in the game while still being the least impactfull in the early game? I would not really like to do that. Top lane People also rant about top lane, and while I understand that bruisers are often out classed by tanks, when I imagine a perfect late game, I want a strong tank in front of my team to protect and engage. If nobody is playing tanks, they should have a decently high win rate when they are played. Or in other words: If you play something that your team needs you should have more success than if you play pure carries. A good team shall not contain 4 carries and a support. Even if the support was a tanky support, he could never be a true tank because he has less gold and levels. ADCs I don't believe that, what many players say, ADCs deal too much damage. Any damage dealer in the game can deal more initial damage than any ADC in the game, be it a full-damage diver, an assassin or a mage. The thing is, ADCs don't stop dealing damage after blowing any important cooldowns, because they don't really have any as AA-based champions. And that's great! You need someone in your team who doesn't stop dealing damage after the initial burst, or else everyone who survives the engage will survive the fight. Also, they are not too squishy, as some ADC players might say. They have to be squishy, or in other ways, they have to be 1-shot-able, in order to make them play safe. If they were allowed to play very risky without much of a death-thread, they would shred through the whole enemy team. This way though, if they go one step too far, they die and their team lost the fight (except of course the enemy ADC also gets one-shot). This makes ADCs an exciting role to play, as you have to watch every step, as well as to play against, since you shall always look for the opportunity to catch and 1-shot them. Assassins As I just mentioned, ADCs have to be 1-shot-able, so a role that takes the risk of going into melee range of the enemy team to fulfill that job of 1-shooting the enemy ADC feels like a needed and well placed role. As long as Assassins don't deal enough damage to 1-shot bruisers but enough to 1-shot ADCs and mages that don't build defense (or only build defensive boots), they are in a pretty good spot in general imo. Also, do you know how satisfying it feels to watch an ADC melt in the hands of a fed Zed? It really does.

General Towers I don't really understand the recent rant about towers. If they are too tanky, the game drags on for ever. If they are too squishy, they die upon one push with the ally still under them. If they deal too much damage, dives become impossible; and if they deal not enough, dives become risk-free. There will always be players who will say that towers are unbalanced in one direction or the other, but I think Riot does a pretty decent job at this. LCS I really like watching LCS, and the fact that it engages players into playing also makes balancing around it a bit a thing that makes sense for Riot to do.

P.S.: Besides that, the lore team does EXCEPTIONAL work! Really. Luv U guys! #Nohomo

Not trying to be rude, but you realize that "whining" about players "whining" is... Still whining right? Most of the players that "whine" on these boards and reddit in general have the right to whine. They've given Riot money and thousands of hours of their time in devotion. I'm all for positive feedback when necessary, but when Riot gets as much money as they do and yet still practically ignores their community (I could care LESS about them actually doing any of the things we suggest. But IGNORING feedback is a whole 'nother level of low) than it shouldn't be surprising when positive-feedback is at such a disparity.

You might have not been around when Riot was just starting with League. The community was tight-nit and integral to the success of this "acclaimed" game. Without this community, Riot wouldn't be here. Plain. And. Simple. And just as plain and simple is this, the community brought Riot here- it can take Riot out as well.

If Riot doesn't respond to OUR "negative" (constructive) feedback, than why would it make sense to reward them with positive reinforcement? It's like giving a dog a treat for urinating on the Persian carpet.

Just food for thought