Rengar...

TheJan1tor··42 votes·4,943 views

Before I get started, let me open by saying that Rengar needed to be nerfed. Between his burst potential, level 6 power spike, and lack of feasible counterplay around the state of the Stealth mechanic -- he was overall an unhealthy champ that had an overwhelmingly negative impact on the game for most player, and something HAD to be done about him.

Next -- I'm not a 'Rengod' by any stretch of the imagination (only 229k champion mastery with Rengar), but he Was my most played champion for a reason. He was fun! I enjoyed being able to 1 shot enemy carries. I enjoyed making players feel Hunted. I enjoyed being something that players legitimately Feared if I played my game right and became a big enough threat (and we'll return to this particular point about Rengar later). But unfortunately that's an experience I can no longer enjoy with Rengar...and it's left me completely broken as both a Rengar fan and League of Legends player.

Let me quickly recap the changes Riot made to Rengar in patches 6.2/6.3 -- why I feel they were made, and whether or not I feel they were appropriate changes to make.

Q - Empowered Savagery: DAMAGE SCALING 50% total attack damage ⇒ 30% total attack damage ATTACK DAMAGE BUFF +10% bonus attack damage ⇒ +20% bonus attack damage

This nerf speaks for itself. They pulled damage away from his Q's burst damage (the opening to his 1-shot combo) and gave him more damage for extended combat. Completely reasonable and necessary in my opinion. I have absolutely no issues with it nor do I have any suggestion to improve this portion of his kit compared to where it is currently.

R - Thrill of the Hunt: EXCLAMATION MARK RANGE 1250 ⇒ 1450

Another necessary change in my opinion, especially given how difficult it can be to play around the current state of the Stealth mechanic. Personally, I would implement a global sound that would play when he ults -- similar to Sion / Nocturne R and Corki Package to Further alert players that 'The Hunt Is On'.

E - Bola Strike: Bola Strike now has a cast time (0.25 seconds) when Rengar casts it while mid-air E - Bola Strike: CAST TIME 0.25 seconds ⇒ 0.125 seconds HUNTING PREP Bola Strike now begins slightly behind Rengar when cast while leaping

This is where the champion died... We all know it, we've all seen it, and everyone who's played Rengar since has experienced the frustration that came with this change. But for those of you who haven't -- allow me to explain what happens here. By adding a cast time to the mid-air Bola Strike, you are no longer able to land Bola Strike on enemies that are moving Toward you (something they tried to address with the 6.3 changes 'Bola Strike now begins slightly behind Rengar when cast while leaping' -- but this change mostly impacted the ability to hit stationary targets) due to the fact that by the time the Bola Strike cast is finished, you've landed where your target was when you started to leap -- and if they were running Toward you, they are now Behind you. The behavior of the Bola Strike has changed so drastically, that you're only capable of landing a proper combo on targets that are either Stationary, or moving perpendicular/away from you. I personally took pride in being able to perform proper combos on intended targets in clusters by properly timing the Bola Strike in mid-air. Overall, I feel the changes to the Bola Strike were completely uncalled for (Especially given the other nerfs to his kit) and I feel his E should be reverted to the it's state prior to patch 6.2

WITH THAT BEING SAID, I feel it's only reasonable to address other core issues with Rengar as a champion. Riot has stated their intentions to address the issues around the Stealth mechanic -- but I have a feeling that change is a long ways off. So our only other option is to address his Level 6 power spike and how quickly he can snowball out of control from it. Earlier I mentioned that there should be a global sound played when Rengar ults to alert all players on the map of the impending death that awaits them if they fail to act accordingly. Additionally, I feel that his 'Trophy' passive should be modified to prevent Rengar from becoming too powerful too quickly (as discussed below).

While I admit that I used to use 'Sword of the Occult' while it was in the game, we simply can't compare the power of Rengar's Trophies to the former SotO. With that being said, I don't feel it'd be appropriate to make Rengar a target by allowing his Trophies to be lost like Item Stacks -- Rengar is already targeted by being an assassin that's hated by the majority of the community, and the second he puts himself in a position to be killed, he Will be. Instead, I feel the Trophy bonuses should be adjusted to be given at later parts of the game. For example: 3 TROPHIES => 5 TROPHIES: Unseen Predator Hunter's Domain: 25 bonus movement speed while out of combat or in brush. 6 TROPHIES => 10 TROPHIES: Unseen Predator Unseen Predator's range is increased by 125. 12 TROPHIES => 15 TROPHIES: Thrill of the Hunt Thrill of the Hunt's duration is increased by 5 seconds. 20 TROPHIES => Unchanged: Thrill of the Hunt Thrill of the Hunt's bonus movement speed while stealthed is doubled.

LET'S NOT FORGET THE TANK META!! Now that the Juggernaut items have become so prominent in the meta -- Assassin Rengar is virtually dead, and these changes that were intended to curb the power of Assassin Rengar are completely pointless now.

[Insert needlessly long rant about his Sheen / Ability Cooldown / Bola Strike / etc bugs caused by spaghetti code that should be treated as a critical issue that's detrimental to bringing Rengar back to a playable state]

TL;DR- Changes to Bola Strike were too much, and I feel that they should be reverted and we should find more appropriate means of 'taming' Rengar.


Edit: Let me continue by saying, Yes, I'm aware that Tankgar is a perfectly viable option right now. I've played many games with Rengar since his nerfs and sadly found this to be the most viable option for Rengar at the moment. However, that's simply because the Tank items in the game are far too powerful. In all honesty, I've recently started dipping back into AP Rengar and found that it's an even more viable option than AD Rengar in terms of being able to consistently 1 shot enemies.

I'm just pointing out that Riot's changes were aimed DIRECTLY at Assassin Rengar, the E changes were overkill, and they all came at a very unfortunate time when Assassin Rengar would have died naturally (as he always has in the past) when the Tank meta was just starting to rise again.

53 Comments

JerulEon6 votes

I can so relate.

I literally lost a game because I made an aggressive ult play, and when I tried to land on an Ahri with my empowered E, it completely went over her head. The enemy team snowballed off my misplay, and we lost.

I would really like to play Rengar again and have access to his full combo/diverse skill set, and with the E changes his tactical options were also limited. The reliability of hitting a bola snare was so important.

MunchCrunchLunch5 votes

he can still q twice and auto and thats a kill. unless u have flash u die. fair enough if you ask me

Van der Bellen1 votes

Well hes an Assassin what do you want?

dEAdbUs1 votes

I played all assassins. Only rengar has insta burst. The rest of assassins have longer combo, so you have time to react (zed ult, lb chain, talon needs to aa which is slow, ekko projectiles are pretty slow, twitch need to w and attacks you with r, fizz needs to come closer and proc his r, etc). There was video with rengo kill in 0.01 sec. Try to react and do counterplay.

AstroFerrari 4 votes

This is pretty much how I felt about GP after they nerfed his barrels recently. His early game much harder and his late game has to be played so delicately. I feel your pain man.

dEAdbUs3 votes

Endless mana and endless healing from undying? One of most safe early lanes right now.

AstroFerrari 1 votes

Aye in my defense I only started playing GP a couple of weeks before the E nerf. I also don't run undying on him, not as fun as some other builds I've tried.

TyroneWatermelon4 votes

Not sure how the tank meta killed rengar,he can 2shot most tanks,and still has no counterplay

PROJECT Katarìna3 votes

only if he somehow managed to get 18/0 and he still probably wont 2 shot a tank let alone kill them

Knifecat Reborn4 votes

The tank meta killed a highly favored build path of Rengar players because it really does limit him as to what he can do as an assassin. Also top laners and junglers such as Darius, Vi, Shyvana, Nasus, Master Shitter (in some cases), Garen, and Trundle all counter him and are good at counter jungling. And these are very frequently played in this meta, so Rengar players really aren't left to work with much. Even though Rengar may be able to burst someone completely, he pretty much throws himself into the enemy team to do so, basically suiciding to get out a key champion such as the adc or mid laner, if he can even do that before he's cc'd to death.

TyroneWatermelon1 votes

I'm not sure though,I never saw a nasus jungle,and against a molester yi it's a skill matchup,while rengar can't build anymore full damage and get away with it so easily,he can build full tank or atleast fighter and STILL SOMEHOW do more damage than the ad carry

Knifecat Reborn1 votes

I said top laners And junglers :P I'm a Rengar player in the top lane, I don't jungle with him often. I wouldn't categorize Nasus to jungle because that's pretty rare. But Rengar doesn't have to go crit and with the tank meta, be fine with building straight armor pen. Even then it's not always that great considering there's usually 2-3 tanks on almost every team now. Everyone knows you can always build a champion a different way with the same end result of win/lose, but riot is pretty much taking out an entire build path of going Pure Assassin Rengar. Even though you can do it, it's pretty much useless/pointless unless you're at least 10/0 and other lanes don't feed. It's almost as big as the rework of Yi going from AP to AD, no longer able to build AP in a highly useful strategy (I know there's rageblade, and that's not what I mean at all, I'm talking about full AP, just like full AD/Crit Rengar). To all the people that loved AP Yi, It's no longer possible nor useful, and takes the fun out of the game for all those who loved it, just as riot is taking the fun out and leaving Rengar players unable to build their favorite path because it doesn't work unless you're hyperfed.

A Miss Fortune5 votes

Rengar doesn't can't 2-shot tanks, and that's not why people were ever afraid of him either. People disliked him because he could 1-shot a team's carry in under 0.1 seconds.

Van der Bellen5 votes

Thats pretty much the purpose of an assassin.

Rengar Top Lane1 votes

{quoted}

Not sure how the tank meta killed rengar,he can 2shot most tanks,and still has no counterplay

Rengar does no two shot tanks...

PROJECT Katarìna4 votes

agreed you dont know how many time I have rengars e fly over someone ones head when im trying to assassinate him plus its a empowered e its much worse cause you lose alot of your damage and cc if it misses

Tank Masochist4 votes

I began maining Rengar season 4, he had everything i could think of that would be enjoyable in a league champion. Tons of mobility (granted only in specific areas), high burst, decently high mastery cap, fun and skillbased matchups in the top lane and a unique game changing passive (combination of his resource bar/bonetooth necklace). Over the course of season 5 he was left relatively untouched except for a minor change every now and then and i loved it, i got to play my favorite champion and thought with the meta changing there were some frustrating matchups (goddamn Riven and everything she stands for) i still felt his toplane viability remained and of course his jg will always be the primary niche. I do fully admit that beginning this season Rengar needed the nerf's he got in regards to his Q and his Ulti. This post targetted the issue with his position extremely well because not only did that E change nearly decimate my traditional ult combo (E, W, Taimat/Youmoos, Q) because of the unreliability it brought to the table, it introduced so many bugs to the champion that we saw him removed entirely from the game for a few days while they worked on the monstrocity they had created. Presently, Rengar is in a difficult position. I used to love playing him toplane but as of now, the only matchups i find skillbased or easy (both because of experience and the champions niche) are Irelia, Jax, Gangplank, Gnar, Riven, and Aatrox (this is off the top of my head). Nearly all other matchups in the current meta are extremely frustrating if not downright impossible to win lane, these being Trundle, Graves, Nautilus, Quinn, Ramnus, (Fiora a few patches back), Darius (this is rather rare) etc. Essentially any tank/range denier who can survive the initial burst that rengar would throw at them which normally is an empowered E combo or in some special cases a double Q combo can zone him away from farm and in most cases harass him out of lane with little to no problem. Quinn? forget it, instant dodge or lane/role swap. Trundle? Either by some miracle win before 6 because after that there ain't no way. To be fair this is a problem for the Toplane meta in general but even as a JG Rengar, you either hope you have a good meta pick toplane or you're deterred away from ganking that lane because there is little to no kill potential and the damage you may take back in the 2 v 1 will probably force a recall.

TL;DR As a now 3 season Rengar main, i support this post entirely and further emphasize that not only Rengar but any toplane bruiser/assasin has lost viability because of the current meta. Given the itemization (dirt cheap sunfire/iceborn combo) and the nature of tanks countering Assasins (in terms of Rengar specifically) it has driven any counterplay to the meta picks other than countering with your own meta pick into obscurity to the point that i've had people in high gold/plat elo threaten to report me for picking Rengar into a tank JG/Top. I'm Confident in my ability to play with my matchup experience but when all it takes for a tank to kill you is stand next to you while simoutaneously slowing and ccing you, there isn't much you can do.

Thanks for the read!

Currents4 votes

They purposely made Rengar clunky to play; they make him outplay himself as opposed to the enemy outplaying. People wanted reactive counterplay instead of proactive counterplay. I wish they didn't succumb to those players but Riot chose to make this decision. They shouldn't be making a champ outplay itself by missing unreliable bolas.

That being said, my proposed ideas to take some power from him if we are able to get a revert on midair bola is something like lowering the base damage of empowered bola and maybe even some missile speed from bola in general. A bit more counterplay to it and it also won't be doing as much damage as an empowered Q early on.

At the moment he just is not satisfying nor very fun to play. The smoothness he had to his kit was completely butchered by the bola changes and any way we can get that reverted would be ideal. More changes than just the one I suggested could also be done but otherwise he's just not going to be very fun for most seasoned players of the champ.

Sintama3 votes

I'm a silvertard because I'm bad, but personally, I thought Rengar was in a good state prior to the nerfs. All I have ever seen is people playing stupid and that's why Rengar would snowball so easily. People don't buy pinks, they don't know what "playing safe" is. Enemy team picks Rengar? Someone on your team picks new Poppy. Now he can't leap on your squishies as easy. Admittedly, he PROBABLY was too strong, but he did his job as an assassin. I am at a point where I think, "Don't want X champion to be too strong? Don't feed."

dEAdbUs1 votes

Rengar was one of most banned champions before juggernauts were released, and for reasons. Playing safe doesn't work vs invisible one-shot machine.

hhaavviikk3 votes

his kit is simply feast or famine, he needs a rework no number changes will solve his problems

Knifecat Reborn2 votes

Honestly I agree as a Rengar player. But the only thing that I'm not too sure about (if one is to build assassin Rengar) is that the global ultimate sound might be too much of an advantage to the opposing team to prepare and almost always shut him down or render him pointless in the fact that he shouldn't or even can't go all in by himself or with a teammate without losing more from it than gaining from it. Its an interesting idea, and I see that it works well with Nocturn, but he is able to leave everyone with no vision in order to dive in with his ult, making it nearly impossible to stop it. Also Sion is 98% of the time a 4-5 item tank, his ult kit makes complete sense because he's there to take damage but secondly do damage to who he can, and his passive serves very well once he dies, being able to go for turrets or finish/help his team to get kills.

But if they were to give Rengar a global ultimate sound, I feel (especially late game) that they would be able to be "over-prepared" so to speak, that Rengar would be bursted/cc'd down before he could get anyone. Even if he did one shot, let's the the adc, if the enemy team is grouped well then Rengar would basically only serve his team a one-time-deal, leaving it to a 4v4. Of coarse there is the potential to pull more out of it, you will probably be the first to be focused down almost as instantly as you reappear from your ultimate.

My examples are based on a generally late game, with each team having average cc and the 2-3 tanks/bruisers, both teams being somewhat equal, but they also have their own unique advantages and weaknesses.

Because of the buffs on tanks, tank items, and the nerf to Rengar's Bola Strike, I've been building Rengar as a bruiser with Hydra, Boots (whatever suits you for the enemy team comp), Maw, Dead Mans, Black Cleaver, and the last one being optional to how the game is going. My last item being Thornmail, Spirit Visage, Sunfire, Death's Dance, Frozen Mallet, Youmuu's Ghostblade, or one of the two items from Last Whisper.

All in all, I feel the global ultimate sound would only serve most useful in early-mid game to get him ahead if possible. Late game you would really have to depend on catching others out completely away from their team.

dEAdbUs1 votes

I was killed by rengar many times jumping from his ult before his sign appeared over my head. Global sound could solve this problem.

Over-preparing is the only counterplay that rengo has right now.

Knifecat Reborn1 votes

That's because he ulted while he was close to you, rather than at a further distance that would give you time to react over the period of how much closer he needs to get in order to jump. I mean no ones suggesting that LeBlanc's last ability be displayed over her whenever her ult is up. Also that's probably because he's fed and certain measures weren't taken to keep him behind, which in that case, is your team's fault.

dEAdbUs1 votes

"Don't give kills" counterplay style usually means that champion is badly balanced and can easily snowball out of control (rengo, riven). You can do not give them kills if you have 5 guys premade, but in soloq it cannot be released. I don't want to lose because random player from my team did mistake and occasionally died to those snowball machines. Only rengar/riven players find it fun. And yes I played both those champions, and yes I know how they can kill almost anyone.

Currents1 votes

You're lying because you can never be killed by Rengar from his ult without his indicator appearing. His indicator range is nearly double is (empowered) leap range. He cannot feasibly kill you before the indicator shows up.

dEAdbUs1 votes

Come closer, jump when invis procs. Easy peasy.

Currents1 votes

Then you have vision of him and the mark still shows anyway. Nice try

dEAdbUs1 votes

Mb I'm wrong, in this video he has mark, but it didn't help: https://youtu.be/yW_st2H2Y2Y

Eliozh1 votes

... Yo, at least look at the date of the video. This was pre-nerf with the oldschool build (RIP LW).

Elwe The Jungler2 votes

Sad to see the kitty being beaten by the big bug guy in the current meta. I'd rather see Rengar all day long than Kha'zix. And I support your idea, Riot overreacted when they reduced the Bola numbers to that point.

Tychusfindlay9192 votes

juggernaut meta blah blah blah. Rengar was never meant to go toe to toe with champions like Darius (and in games where the enemy takes rengar I make sure to make that point clear to them). Rengar was meant to assassinate your backline. After he does that, anything more he does is extra damage.

That being said, I don't mind them bringing assasin rengar back, but don't expect rengar to ever at any point be able to stand up to top lane melee champs in straight up 1v1s and even during a gank you have to exercise caution even in the 2 v 1.

TheJan1tor2 votes

I'm not sure what kind of Rengars you've been playing against =/ but I don't have much of a problem playing against champs like Darius -- it's always been much more of a skill matchup in my experience.

Tychusfindlay9191 votes

{quoted}

I'm not sure what kind of Rengars you've been playing against =/ but I don't have much of a problem playing against champs like Darius -- it's always been much more of a skill matchup in my experience.

I find that usually rengar has a problem going against juggernauts since he can't really full combo burst them down but they can burst him down pretty quick since he's not particularly tanky.

Its not a hard counter per se, but I've caught rengars out who thought they could 1v1 me as Darius. It is definitely a pain in the ass to go up against a juggernaut as rengar, especially a juggernaut that can force you to stay in his face for a long time. Not to mention, in the typical fight, rengar does what he likes best, full combo, run to the nearest bush, and full combo again. Usually I apprehend him before he walks in the bush and force him to have to fight without his leap.

I guess rengar can maybe win so long as he doesnt get 5 stacks on him (which is pretty hard since rengar is exclusively melee except for his net). The chances are under 20% though with a somewhat competent darius.

dEAdbUs1 votes

I have to agree with Janitor. Rengo can kite dari with his net and avoid daris q. It's more like skill matchup.

Tychusfindlay9191 votes

{quoted}

I have to agree with Janitor. Rengo can kite dari with his net and avoid daris q. It's more like skill matchup.

So rengar just throws nets and never engages? At best that's a tie/win for darius since rengar (if he's playing top) isn't getting any cs or (if he's jungle) isn't getting camps or making other meaningful plays elsewhere.

Avenger7031 votes

I have to be honest, I'm a Plat rengar main (180 games this season, most after the nerf) and while I was originally pissed at riot over the changes, I think Rengar is fine the way he is now. The bola changes simply added a mechanic that no one was comfortable with, but now being able to land an empowered bola coming out of ult is what separates a good Rengar from a great Rengar. I've landed Bolas on a leblanc as she dashes away coming out of ult, it's just something to get used to. The idea of a global sound for rengar ult is entirely shitty and I don't support that one bit.

TheJan1tor1 votes

As I mentioned in the original post, hitting targets that are moving away / angled / stationary from you is easy with the Bola changes. However, hitting anything moving towards you is impossible (through typical methods). I've found 2 methods that allow me to land E from stealth. 1.) Don't jump at all, and throw the empowered E while standing in range of your target. 2.) Throw the bola Backwards if you jump.

Both of these are either impractical or remove the utility of his jump mechanic -- which would be fine in cases where you would already Not want to be jumping onto your target in a fight. But considering that it becomes a Necessity to properly land the Bola, I'd say it's a change that shouldn't have been implemented at all.

Avenger7031 votes

How is throwing the bola backwards impractical? It requires you to predict which direction your opponent is going to be walking and analyze more things when you jump, but it's entirely feasible.

TheJan1tor3 votes

Feasible - yes. Practical - no. It becomes a coin toss in the time between your jump and the bola being released. If the enemy changes direction while you're in mid air, then throwing it backward after jumping doesn't work. If they stay their course and don't react to your ult indicator, it works - but if you'd 'predicted' they were going to turn around, then throwing it forward yields the result we're most used to seeing where the Bola flies right over the target's head.

The Bola change makes mid-air Bola's so unreliable that they may as well have changed it to being a 50% chance of launching if cast mid-air. No joke. There's no such thing as a 'good Rengar' when using their ability to land mid-air Bolas. It's Entirely Luck.

Vryx1 votes

The issues with a global sound, and what you compare it to, Sion, for example, gains a LOAD of movespeed even at early ranks and is able to get into lane in around 2-3 seconds after using it.. while rengar gains very minimal, so if you were to use it and they hear a global roar of some kind, then all they have to do is back up under tower as you do not have the movespeed to get into a decent position, Nocturne flies to his target VERY quickly, so he NEEDS that sound and visual or you would be having a noc ulting you from red buff without knowing.. I just feel like unless they increased his movespeed to enormous amounts, he wouldnt be able to get any orm of ult gank off witout the nemy just hearing, and walking back to their tower to wait for 7 seconds and then go back to farming when he is useless for 90-120 seconds depending on CDR

TheJan1tor1 votes

Comparing those two ults to Rengar's is a bit silly. Sion has a very limited amount of control when he ults -- and Nocturne can't change his mind once he selects a target.
Both of these ults also have Global presence because of their sound. Competent players put all of their actions on pause and in most cases will even step away from your team when they hear it. The number of time's I've stopped the enemy from jumping on my team in a lane I wasn't able to jump to as Nocturne is hilarious. While it gives the enemy a chance to retreat, there's clear cut strengths to using Global Sounds as well -- provided you know when and how to use them.

kittycarriesU1 votes

SO will riot bring back rengar how it was in season 4 - 5 or will they fix this ebola ?

4EtQTKtcfT1 votes

Don't forget that Shiv, Rfc, Deadmans don't proc on Rengars Q from leap nomore..

TheJan1tor1 votes

I kinda bundled them all under the 'Bug Rant' insertion. Although to be honest I'm Much more frustrated that the Sheen bug remains after nearly 3 years.

Frius1 votes

look how shaco ganks then look how rengar ganks

see the bullshit right there?

half invis duration with blink ,no warning ,makes your life hell and 10 s CD

aside of that A BIG PROBLEM i see with E randomly flying away

throw it forward ,flights to left /forward or even behind rengar like WTF

he is feast or famine ,do or die , kill champignions or be useless or just a scanner with R

O L A1 votes

I agree with everything you said except for the global alert on Rengar's ultimate. The whole point is for them to not know and even if they did know and the range indicator was removed, They can just play safe for 7 seconds and then go, " Rengar ult on cd".

TheJan1tor1 votes

But that's 7 seconds where the enemy team isn't willing to fight. More than enough time to finish any objective your team has started taking, whether it be a Turret or Dragon/Baron. I've used his ult like this in many occasions (aside from picking off straggling carries, it's the most useful way to use his ult late game).

LankPants1 votes

Rengar just needs a rework. He's a mistake of a champion who never should have been allowed to exist. TBH I'm glad he's unplayable because when he is playable he makes the game as a whole less fun.

Syve1 votes

MAKE RENGAR GREAT AGAIN!

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