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Riot, please reconsider giving Anivia diferent nerfs

Mestm97··10 votes·793 views

I've been playing league of legends since Vayne release, and i played it only because there was a Cryophoenix, i just love those creatures, and she was my first champion back when she costed 6300, i remember i was "Hey is that guy that plays anivia, thanks for letting me see that champ"

But that is pure nostalgia, she's been geting some small buffs each past, mostly mana cost, and while i feelt like she was really strong in the Juggernout meta i dont think she is that good in ADC meta, ANYWAY i understand you may want to nerf her, but those nerfs are awful, if you consider how long it takes for her E to reach the target you may realize how hard is this nerf, why not touch her mana cost? Or you could reduce her base dmg, mostly early if is necesary or just overall but this nerf is a gameplay nerf. Imagine the situation where you hit someone with your Q at max range, you have to get close to E them, MAYBE your E will deal to bonus dmg, it will depend if the champion has some mobility to delay the time it takes to reach the target, and her R is going to be sooo unreliable.

Please this will make her an unreliable champion, and ive played every champion, and if there is a thing i like about anivia is how sheis always omewhat viable, BUT if you manage to play her correctly, assasin meta was hella hard but COULD work, with the right builpath and sacrificing things like infinite mana and huge dmg, but now i feel like there will be better choices and she will get even more outshined by FoTM picks and mobiliy ones.

Sorry for my english but i hope ive made it clear.

18 Comments

Dark Nephthys8 votes

Personally, I feel that Anivia doesn't even need any nerfs. I think she is at a good spot now, strong when played well but has a lot of weaknesses and can easily be taken advantaged of because of that. Now this isn't directed at you since you are somewhat offering a fair trade off of nerfs (if she so has to have one..which I feel she doesn't need), but this is mainly for people who might be claiming that she is op or needs larger nerfs.

She has a lot of weaknesses (I'd almost argue one of the most in the game). She is possibly the most mana hungry champion in the game Has the lowest base HP in the game (Ok technically 2nd, since Mini-gnar is lower) Lowest movement speed in the game (325) No form of mobility of any kind, no dash, no increased ms or anything Slowest moving projectile in the game (Q) which basically is "If you miss it, you have no damage at all pre6" Generally a scaling Champion (Usually Tear + RoA) Most annoying champion to farm with pre6 due to horrible auto attack animation

Now on to random things: Way to counter Anivia? Just play a champion with poke, or manaless waveclear and constantly push her to her tower. Her pre-6 can't clear those minions and she will miss almost all minions under tower, OR it would force her to use her Q to help clear it which will easily eat up her mana. She is not a good champion to roam with, so push her to tower and roam to another lane for a kill and obtain an advantage. If she tries to follow you, you can easily jump on her and either kill her or at least proc her egg.

Also people mentioned that melee champions have a hard time against her, it depends on who really. Talon and Zed just has to survive the pre-6 game, and then at 6 they can jump on her and kill her, just play passive and only harass and don't all-in until you hit 6. Katarina is basically the same situation, just poke with Q and then you can jump on her once her hp gets a little lower. As for Fizz and Yasuo, those two champions has a super easy lane that makes Anivia's life a living hell. Fizz can just E her frost bite which is her entire damage basically, and instant kill her if he lands his shark. Yasuo can constantly dash around minions to avoid her flash frost, and then windwall her frost bite and he wins lane.

This pre-season is already in chaos and I have no idea how many times I had to face Yasuo, or a random ADC in the mid lane. With the removal of Mana potions, facing some one like Yasuo or any other manaless, or extremely low mana users are already hard enough, I don't think she needs any nerfs.

Riot said that these changes aren't designed to purposely reduce game time, but with the buffs to Early or Mid game champions like Riven and others, and then nerfing one of the late game scaling mages (Anivia) it sure seems that way. When the average game is starting to end around 20 mins, why are you guys nerfing Anivia, which takes the first 20-25 mins to even get "started"?

Mestm971 votes

Agree! People seem to have problems with Anivia because she is uncommon, when i lane against an Anivia i tend to not only win the lane, but destroy her but its because i know her weaknesses (more than 5 years playing that champion hmm), I always feel like she was a little Lee, in a way that she is always viable, and has her own thing to apport to the game. While Lee changes with the meta from Assasin to Tank, to brusier, to anti Tank etc Anivia always kept her identity as a late game beast, the problem is that riot buffed her early game, still not even close to lee. And indeed her early game last hitting is freaking awful, i get melee sometimes (when the enemy is afraid of me ofc) and sometimes i have to use my E to secure the big minion. Another posible nerf would be change her E cooldown from 5 to 7/6.5/6/5.5/5 or 8/7.25/6.5/5.75/5 to give the enemies more time if she waste her E early game, hell even 9/8/7/6/5.

Dark Nephthys1 votes

Yea I'd be alright with her E getting a little increase in CD for the early levels if that is to replace the nerfs they are planning. Though the nerfs on the pbe, the chill duration of ultimate from 2 seconds to 1, shouldn't be a problem since you generally have well enough time to R>E some one, or if in the right position to E>R them. However, the Q's chill duration from 3 seconds down to 2 is a bit much. Landing a max range Q is already hard to get enough time for her E, and with the chill duration being lower it'll almost be pointless to attempt to get E off of max range Q since the max range difference of the 2 skills are pretty high.

The thing that makes me mad the most about this, is the fact that she is only being nerfed because of a high win rate in diamond rank. In diamond level ranking, she has the highest win rate at 56.5% but they don't even look at the fact that her popularity is low at 6.4%. The win rate is high because mostly only Anivia mains play her now, it's no wonder that these win rates are a little high. Mundo has the 2nd highest win rate in diamond at 55.7% with a very high 20.2% popularity so for a way more popular champion with almost as high win rate that should tell you that he would be op or something to be that high next to Anivia if she really needed nerfed.

Though Mundo did get hit this pbe as well, and I personally don't feel he was op but just very strong atm. It's just looks like they'll start nerfing all champions with a high win rate and not even look at how underplayed they are. We'll know for sure if thats true if Olaf gets nerfed soon since he is 3rd highest win rate with 55.3% win rate, even though his popularity is only 4.3%.

I don't know...Maybe I'm only taking this so seriously since I main Anivia and she has been my best/favorite champion since I started at the beginning of Season 3. Maybe after looking through it some more, this might of been reasonable of them and we can easily get re-adjusted to the nerfs. I'll live with the nerfs and re-adjust to it if I have to, as long as she doesn't get hit again because then that would be bs.

Mestm971 votes

Agreed, i mean look at this http://www.lolking.net/champions/anivia#statistics , its perfect you can see how the moment people tried to "abuse" her she just got a worse winrate.

GetLeBonked3 votes

I agree, I think these nerfs are more frustrating for Anivia players and perhaps less effective than simply reducing her base damages, increasing mana costs or possibly reducing her base Mana/MP5. 350 base damage on her E and Q at level 5 is really absurd, even other two proc abilities on other midlaners have lower bases. LeBlanc's Q is 310, Ahri Q 280, heck even Diana R is 200. And these champions are all assassins with low sustained dps and utility! Viktor has the only comparable ability with his augmented E which does 350 damage(and he's been a priority pick for much of s5). I think reducing her E to something like 110/160/210/260/310 base damage would be a good place to start.

What I personally dislike about playing against Anivia as a midlane main is how she becomes an immovable object in lane with catalyst; she is tanky for a mage + a revive passive, waveclear, hard CC, and she honestly wins most trades post-6 w/ catalyst. Catalyst as an item solves all her early game issues since she needs no AP with her base damages, and it more importantly gives the health, mana and sustain to grind out lanes.

Also she is really really strong against melee assassins in lane, one of the most frustrating experiences I've had in ranked is going against Anivia as Katarina, it felt like everytime I went for CS I lost a third my HP from E-R(even after rushing negatron) and I had no kill pressure with her egg and sustain/HP from catalyst. I know its supposed to be a hard lane but it I felt so hopeless because it felt like no matter how well I played the lane I was screwed.

Mestm971 votes

I understand you, they could reduce her Q and E dmg by 10 each one (40 overall) and early levels maybe a little more, hell even if is necessar pass her power to her Q, when i play anivia i expect to have a dificult lane phase, but an strong late game, and while she is a bit like that i feel like her bases are a little to much for early game, also i think her Q cost should scale 15 each level, right now it is 10, and used to be 20, maybe a middle ground could be an start. Anyway consider that anivia is suppouse to be hard to move away from lane but trust me she is hella vunerable to poke and mobility, literaly Zed, who is getting buffed the same patch so more problems will come.

GetLeBonked2 votes

I think since her Q is soooo slow and so painfully obvious it should be very punishing if you get caught in it, so I hope her Q damage remains quite high. But her 5 second E with they highest non-ult base damage for a mage is silly. Also Zed should be a counter to Anivia in lane, although the past few patches when Zed has been particularly weak and Anivia the opposite it hasn't been the case.

Mestm971 votes

Well while Zed wasn't was that good i saw one who totally destroyed an anivia.

But lets ignore that they could reduce 10 base dmg from her E (20 overall) and give it to her Q, so more rewarding. The reason her E is so strong is because she gets into range of many assasins and champions overall, while i agree 5 seconds is stupid in lane, as i said, maybe change it to 9/8/7/6/5

ProfDrDeath2 votes

Problem: Her Q/E and R/E combos are too reliable for the damage they do.

Potential solutions:

  • Nerf the damage, but keep the reliability. Consequence: You lower the reward for playing Anivia well. Meh.

  • Nerf the reliability, but keep the damage. Consequence: She keeps her reward for being played well. Her core combo remains as powerful as it is, but edge cases where she barely tagged you with Q or R at full range and still got a full-power E off are removed. Feels a lot better to play against (less bullshit), and solidifies her mid-long ranged character. Remember, unlike the other long-to-extreme range champions, she has no mechanic that makes her come closer to you than necessary.

Overall, after giving it some thought, I think that this nerf is a good nerf that keeps the core character intact.

qetzel2 votes

I agree, with the caveat that they change her E to act like Cass' if it doesn't do so already. Cass' E was changed to check for poison on her target on cast and also on hit. Anivia's should do the same. This will alleviate some of the (valid) concerns the OP has.

Mestm971 votes

What Qetzel said could be, while may be to OP.

May not be that bad now that i think about it, but my main problem is how slow is her E, and how riot has buffed her early game a lot so is not that bad anymore

M0b1us2 votes

Her damage isn't a problem. Her damage hasn't been adjusted against champions in years. Unless you count the extra 1 tick of damage her ult does when it gets deactivated.

Right now she just counters the current meta. Crit based ADCs and snowballing is the current meta. Anivia ever since S1 and before has always slowed the game down and acted as a safety against snowballing teams. Her wave clear is such that it makes it difficult for snowballing teams to completely dominate. If the meta right now wasn't nearly as snowbally then Anivia wouldn't even be on the radar. Players are trying to find ways to slow the game down since Riot is doing so little, name one other champion that can slow a game down as much as Anivia.

Mestm971 votes

That is the reason i think they should increase her mana cost a bit. I also want to add a huge nerf to anivia, Giant Slayer, she has a terrible base health but wih RoA and Liandry's (the late game build) she usully gets hit by 15% bonus dmg.

Shmoovus2 votes

Someone else: "Give this man a cookie" Me: "item 2052 " Riot should act on this. Riot: "item 2015" Hopefully this carrot helps you.

Calabok1 votes

no, I think she should be nerfed more.

Mestm972 votes

You know what, she deserve nerfs, but this ones will only make her feel worst while playing her and enemies won't even realize and will cry about other things

Crowe Stalker1 votes

I think out of the two nerfs, Glacial Storm is fine if they want to nerf her, because you can set where Glacial Storm is and usually end up throwing Frostbite at someone in the middle of it anyway. If they escape, they probably deserve to. However, the Flash Frost nerf is uncalled for because it makes her lane even harder because it gets even more difficult to use your Frostbite properly, and Pre-6 you need all the help you can get with that.

Dominick Destine1 votes

Sorry for my english but i hope ive made it clear.

Whenever anyone says that, I immediately become ultra aware of their english.

Before they say that, I don't even notice their mistakes....

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