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RUNE dilemma--hurting game experience.

foofymonkey··41 votes·2,582 views

There's an old age question that newer players, as well as, the veterans ask all the time. Runes, why are they so expensive?

I see this question way too often, and I have not seen anyone directly approach it in detail.

I could easily go into marketing explaining in great detail of why they did this and how marketing psychology works, but there is a more pressing topic at hand that I want to talk about. So to answer in short, Runes are expensive to siphon IP from the virtual economy. This helps create an urgency to buy RP for champions that players want then and there. Time is money, people like new things, and people don't mind spending money for entertainment. I'm not mad in anyway at RIOT for trying to make a profit. They are a company; I expect it. However, there are many ways to do this, and PRICE ANCHORING runes hurts the gaming experience for everyone. Allow me to EXPLAIN.

Primarily, MY GOAL is to get this UP-VOTED for RIOT to see that their Target Audience would like a better IP distribution, and/or allow FREE RUNES, which would improve gaming experience. I'm not just speaking about new players that get hurt, but players that are level 30, and those that get matched with new level 30's.

First, I see brand new level 30 accounts in Rank all the time. Riot and a few others claim runes are expensive so new players are forced to wait for full rune pages to play rank; this is ridiculous. They never consider that to compete they would have to wait not just for full rune pages, but enough for each of the 5 rolls and multiple champions for each of those rolls to make sure your champions were not all banned.(WARNING: MATH WILL BE COMING). 472 games over a course or 180 days is needed. Math at bottom, just keep reading. Now, I'm not claiming people use 20 rune pages one for each of the 4 champions per roll that would be stupid. Most people in rank have 7 pages. Sadly, that places limits on their play style.

There have been countless posts about Runes being the Most Anti-Fun System in League. And they all seem to get thousands of up-votes, and very rarely get replies from RIOT. http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=3128457

Secondly, the different Tiers of Runes is deceiving, borderline unethical, and should be completely deleted (by the time I'm done explaining you will agree). Tier 1 and 2 runes are only their to trick new players into spending their IP, which makes it longer and harder for them to compete; thus, having inadequate rune pages gives advantages to the opposition . I know people that pick games up quite quickly--they learn games and almost master them in weeks; you may even be one of these people. And if you didn't have a friend to tell you not to buy tier 1 and tier 2 runes, you probably did. I did :( and am sitting on useless runes.

I know someone will argue making them free would be unfair for players that worked for them. I am happy RIOT made RUNE PAGES purchasable by IP, and I spent real money on them. They should be Free. Making them free would allow everyone to Experiment with them, and find strategy with different play styles on champions; thus, improving the game. Let's be honest, Runes are outdated with this game—who really uses the RUNE FACTORY on lower tier runes to try and get better ones? No one, that's who. I tried it, and received garbage runes I will never use.

UNFAIR: The people you competed with in past seasons had to also earn runes. Making runes free would be fair, because it only affects those currently. You would have access to all runes as well.

UNEVEN GAME MECHANICS equals no fun not even for the winner: level 30 with a full rune page against a level 30 without will have a tremendously large advantage in Laning Phase, and may even scale better late game. Snowballing... This goes with someone with an inadequate rune page.

I PROMISED MATH, so here we go. I am going to try and give RIOT the benefit of the doubt. I want to do this keeping my numbers from skewing the results in my favor. Let's say no one spent money on Rune pages. IP only. Let's go with 7 pages. And use the most popular runes. This is a small group opinion that I worked with; the runes used may differ from your choices, but it should give a good example.

We start with 2 free pages, so 5 pages 2600IP is 13,000IP

Champions needed to play rank: 16 cheapest champions is 10,800IP I would not take most of these champs into rank, but that's me. Poppy and Sivir are OP, but sshhhh. http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_champions

Basic Runes: Most Popular-- Flat armor yellows x9 is 1845IP Gold per yellows x4 (I don't use, but was told to add them) 1640IP Mana regen per 5 x9 (AP mana hungry champs) 1845IP

Quints: AD x3 3075IP AP x3 3075IP MS x3 6150IP Gold x3 1045IP (There are many others like AS, LS, Dmg/LvL, Health, Armor Pen, but I was told not to use them to give Riot benefit)

Marks: AS x9 3690IP MP x9 3690IP AD x9 1845IP AP x9 3690IP

Glyphs: AP x9 3690IP CDR x9 7380IP MR/LvL x9 1845IP AS x9 3690IP

TOTAL: 59,080IP Now, this may differ from your opinion, but I think it's safe to claim that a minimum of 50,000IP (to easily over a 100,000IP to get better champions is needed) is needed. The time it takes to accumulate that IP is nuts, absolutely absurd.

Average IP per game---this has been done enough that I'm taking an average of those works and comparing it to my last 10 games on summoners. About 45 minute games yields 70IP plus 150 for first win.

Over 180days

70x + 150(180) = 60000 70x + 27000 = 60000

x= 472 games played that's an average of 3 games a day. So starting at level one and rushing to level 30 with all the IP bonuses. You would have to play 3 games day for a 180 days to afford all of that; this does not include owning the other CHAMPIONS--ALL, soon to be, 105 OF THEM. That would cost an additional 195300+163200+75600+28350 = [462,450 IP]

CONCLUSION: Runes and Rune pages should be free.

If you stuck with me this long, I thank you for reading and for your time.

EDIT..... I've been playing with the "RUNE COMBINER" the last few days. I also have been looking at tables on reddit. There are people that spent over 100,000 IP on tier 1 runes combined all of them 2ce to get tier 3. It could be fun, but you can't even fill a rune page up until level 30. Conclusion: The who Rune System needs a complete rework. http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/1na0wa/i_combined_100k_ip_into_the_rune_combiner_here/

  1. Let us fill rune pages at level 10'ish. OR maybe allow different tiers to be used at certain levels, but the entire rune page should be unlocked, not only allowing 1 rune per level to be added.
  2. Rune Pages shouldn't cost anything.
  3. Runes should be fun, and we should be able to experiment with them on specific champs
  4. Runes give quite an advantage in game--you shouldn't have them inaccessible to new players; they face others with pages full of them!
  5. Random Runes from the combiner? At least make it so if you combine mostly marks the probability of getting a mark is higher.
  6. 400 hours of play to get 50,000IP is ridiculous. Make Runes cheaper or free. I don't mind if they make champions harder to get, but the rune system drives new people (potential costumers) away.
  7. INTERESTING, not a great point but: we can't dump or get rid of runes, but there is a CAP of how many we can own. 684 different runes; cap of 700.

39 Comments

The5lacker4 votes

Because for some reason every marketing department of every gaming company ever has determined that "wasting peoples time to force them to play longer" is somehow a positive.

tempname415674891 votes

Because for some reason every marketing department of every gaming company ever has determined that "wasting peoples time to force them to play longer" is somehow a positive.

I know the suits ruin games man. I played DOTA Wc3 for years without an out of game experience bar or artificial rewards. All you need to keep people coming back is making the game fun, PERIOD. Cheap tactics do not belong in fun games.

Volt Cruelerz4 votes

I disagree with free, but cutting prices by 50% would not be something I'd object to.

disregardable3 votes

Or just get the two standard AP/AD pages that you'll have more than enough for at level 30, on top of several champion purchases. Like everyone else.

I admit, I've since started building up a third rune page for my main role (ADC), but my AP/AD runes fit my needs fine. The specialized runes are just that, specialized. You don't need them.

foofymonkey11 votes

ADC, Bruisers, AP carries, Supports, Tanks all need different rune pages. That's 5 different rune pages. Do you understand the importance of runes? you are bronze 4. But playing 6000 hours to own everything is what you are agreeing with.

disregardable4 votes

Nope, you really don't need them. Stop wasting your time.

Solaxo5 votes

Yes you need them

Volt Cruelerz5 votes

It's one of those hindsight 20/20 things. Originally I just had AP/AD pages but with every additional page, I've found it to be more useful than originally anticipated. They really do make a major difference.

disregardable3 votes

Nah. I'm not denying that they aren't useful, I'm just denying that they're necessary. They can downvote me into oblivion if they want. It doesn't change that the standard pages work fine.

Volt Cruelerz3 votes

Well.. define "useful" versus "necessary" here. This game's matchmaking places you with similar players, so if you want to move up, you'd best have a page for every role.

disregardable2 votes

In this context:

Useful- They are helpful. You will not lose lane without them.

Necessary- They are meta. You will lose lane without them.

Volt Cruelerz4 votes

Except which it is is entirely dependent on what your MMR is. You can't progress to the MMRs that have it as a requirement without them.

The Soulforged3 votes

ADC, Bruisers, AP carries, Supports, Tanks all need different rune pages. That's 5 different rune pages. Do you understand the importance of runes? you are bronze 4. But playing 6000 hours to own everything is what you are agreeing with.

I myself actually do have 2 rune pages xD I would love it if we could get runes for free as I could prolly do some more experimenting and such. It's pretty restricting that I have to only use an ad and an ap page.

Omega3601 votes

I do the exact same thing, and I'm always wondering why I lost lane in toplane for having typical rune pages with ad, mr, armor, and pen, when another set of runes would've worked better.

foofymonkey1 votes

Runes add to base stats. Most Masteries give percentage bonuses off of base stats. Runes are capable of giving more of an advantage than people realize.

Also Runes/masteries can reflect off of itemization in game. Most pros do not even use penetration runes anymore, because of the items that can supplement it. Most pros also have professional statisticians from RIOT helping them figure things like this out.

When RIOT changes a champ the changes are usually more detrimental than people realize. A ONE point FIVE of anything could really make or break a champ when you are speaking about multiplication or exponential quantities.

mew283 votes

The problem with runes to me is it just gives a huge boest to people that have played for a long time. It would be like if the mastery sistem said you had to pay 10 000 ip a point and 5000 a page. It makes it so a new player would neaver beat a new play if they were just on a pro acconte becuase of them.

IMightBeYourDad2 votes

Bump and upvote , I thought id offer my idea to solve the problem. Thanks for doing all that math btw! Mad props! But as to my solution , I think all tiers of runes should have a flat price with a scaled spike for quintessences of said tier. Also more rune page sales are a must , especially for newer players finding themselves interested but trying to improve, as well as veterans trying to solidify a unique build's role in their roster.

foofymonkey2 votes

Thank you. Yes, my idea of all being free might not be the best idea, but it is a solution to a serious problem that have been debated about for years.

I had a friend saying to rework all the runes, because there are lack luster runes that no one buy. RIOT could make runes into it's own mini game with the whole making new runes, but they need to be easily accessible to everyone, as well as, runes need to be balanced for everyone.

NeTBuS212 votes

Please on Black Friday give 70% Off Runes cost! GG!

EDG Cleanlove2 votes

Hooo, we're talking "Maff" here. I don't agree with your choice of runes, so I'll have a go at it:

Seals of scaling health X9 - 3690 Glyphs of scaling MR X9 - 1845

You can use those for almost every rune page, barring very specialized builds.

Marks of magic penetration X9 - 3690 Quintessences of armor X3 - 3075 Quintessences of magic resist X3 - 3075

With that you can play some champs mid lane, tanky junglers and tanky top laners, considering they do mostly magic damage with the appropriate defensive quints depending on what you lane against.

Marks of attack damage (flat or scaling) X9 - 1845 or 3690

Add to that junglers, mid laners and top laners who scale off of AD as well as AD Carry.

Quintessences of gold / 10 X3 - 1545

Add support to the list.

Marks of attack speed X9 - 3690

Add attack speed junglers to the list.

Total cost: 22455 or 24300 just for the runes. add to that 5 rune pages and you've got 35455.

I agree that's still a lot of points, and that doesn't include champions, but you still get the free champion rotation and about 10 champions 450 points each. So basically, by the time you are level 30, you might have enough points to buy all the runes you need and the 450 points champions, depending on how many games you've played a day (and how many wins of the day you've had). You wouldn't have enough champions to play ranked, but you shouldn't play ranked games anyway because you wouldn't be very good at the game yet. That rune setup would make sure you'd be able to compete on an even ground with veterans in normal games as you hone your skills.

I'd rather have them reduce the cost of champions: make the 450 points champion free with new accounts and make 2 champions for each role to be only 1350 points each. Choose them to be fun champions that aren't too difficult for new players. Also remove the now 450 points champions from free champion rotation.

foofymonkey1 votes

Thank you for your input.

My runes I picked where a collaborative of that of others suggested to me. So your runes 35455, plus 10800 for the 16 cheapest champs to play rank (Can't play rank with free champs). You are looking at 46255IP, which is less than the 50,000, however, still pretty close. Still around 400 hours of play time.

EDG Cleanlove1 votes

I don't see why you would need "enough champions to play ranked", rather than just "a couple champions you like to play". It's not like ranked was any different than normal games.

foofymonkey1 votes

There are two reasons. 1) certain champs do better in certain lanes--the meta for the most part does work. Supports like a soraka are not going to solo a top lane unless you are trolling. If you own only 1 champ per lane they may get banned.

  1. free champs can't be used in rank anymore, because you shouldn't be bringing champs you are not practiced with into a rank game.

It's a precaution from RIOT trying to stop trolling for sanity of those that would be on your team. (not saying you would do this, but I have had people do this).

EDG Cleanlove1 votes

I wasn't really clear in what I wanted to say. I didn't mean "I don't understand why you need a certain number of champions" (I get it, 6 bans 10 picks that's 16), but rather, why would a fairly new player WANT to play ranked in the first place? It's not like it was a pre-requisite to have fun, follows all the same rules of a normal game past champ select.

As such, new players are not required to invest a massive amount of time to have fun because they absolutely need to buy all the cheapest champions and whatever else champion they wanna play, but rather they can have fun from the get go as soon as they have 2 runes pages and a mastery setup as well as 2-3 champs that they like. They can play normals to their hearts content until they have the required arsenal in knowledge, runes and champions to tackle ranked games.

foofymonkey1 votes

I understood your thought. Runes are in normal non-rank games as well. There is still an advantage to those who have played longer. On my smurf, before I was even level 30, I had diamonds, plats, golds on both teams. Match making is not accurate.

My point is Runes paired on specific champs, working with specific masteries are very strong. And people who have played longer don't only have an advantage in experience, they get an advantage in Runes.

400 to 500 hours of game time to get adequate rune pages is ridiculous. That's a college degree worth of time.

The5lacker2 votes

See, you did your "Maff" and yet failed to explain why runes should cost IP at all.

Spoiler: It's to waste your time. And any game that needs to waste your time to get you to "play more" has failed.

Xonra2 votes

I have quite a few runes and pages....but it legit took me years to do. And I'm still missing a few I'd like to get.

foofymonkey1 votes

I wish I could like your post more than once.

AmightyT2 votes

Maybe one day riot will update runes like they said, or at least let me have a page for every champ I have

foofymonkey1 votes

Maybe one day riot will update runes like they said, or at least let me have a page for every champ I have

At the very least, I think Riot should make Rune Pages free, so we could make pages for specific champs.

foofymonkey2 votes

  1. To summarize, I think people should get to experiment with runes.

  2. If this is a skilled game, people who have played longer should have more experience, which should equate to skill. Why give people who have played longer more of an advantage with specialized rune pages. Even on my smurf I go against golds and plats with thousands of games. Match making is not cough always accurate.

  3. Runes are not needed to win a lane; however, it cannot be denied they give quite an advantage. Can't exclude runes are added to base stats and multiple masteries give percentage bonuses off base stats. This is even more of an advantage.

  4. Many guides from pros and pros that stream claim you have to have runes and masteries set up correctly for greater success.

  5. Moving up, not everyone starts on the same skill-cap. A plat 1 player that may deserve diamond 5 elo could easily plateau against those that have specialized rune pages. I am speaking about when you start to reach your level of skill on the ELO SYSTEM. Someone of maybe just micropoints lower skill could beat you in lane (scale/snowball) by having better RUNES.

I never claimed to be good at this game, but I know math and I know marketing.

Saianna2 votes

For full set of flat dmg runes + rune page = 14k ip :D Welp.. I'm broke

KzooCrasher1 votes

Downvoted for EXTREME hyperbole.... new players get 2 rune pages. AD for bruisers/ ad casters/ADC/most junglers then get an AP page for mages/the other junglers/some assasins and AP bruisers. Then profit. Seriously this game isn't a grind its fun. I have never once felt like I was grinding IP because the game is so good. I've played thousands of games and still don't feel like I'm grinding.

Is it better to have full rune pages for every champion, yes. Is it required in any way to succeed, no. By the way I could win enough in gold elo to stay gold with 2 rune pages and only champions 1350 and below in cost. And I'm pretty bad some people could stay diamond or challenger like to that. This game isn't IP gated or rune gated. Its skill gated and with the time it takes you to master the skill part you'll make enough IP to have all the stuff he thinks you need as a base.

Svddenly2 votes

One of the things he is saying is that people can't experiment (damn I wish I could do that). I've played League for a few years and many a time have I felt like I was grinding for IP. I love this game don't get me wrong, but runes RUNE (c wat i did ther) games. One solution that makes Riot more money and they've probably considered is being able to buy runes with RP. Like wtf is up with that. Why isn't that a thing already. (Not my favored solution, but a solution none the less)

KzooCrasher1 votes

Ya never once have I felt like i was grinding. Honestly this game has a much higher skill cap than ip cap so there isn't any reason to need all the same runes as the pros when you don't have enough game experience or ability for that tiny stat difference to make or break a lane or a game.

foofymonkey1 votes

They are not necessary to win a lane. I have won lanes without them verse people with them while smurfing. However, it cannot be denied that runes are a great advantage, and that is just math.

And again, there are people who rise up ranks quickly. I have a friend who started last year playing. He has 2 accounts. A diamond 3 and a plat 2 account. He complains all the time about runes. I think he has more say than either of us. However, someone had to start the forum, so I decided to.

"hyperbole" exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally. ---Everything I've said can be backed by math.

BUT APPARENTLY, you believe that only people that have played 400 or EVEN JUST more hours deserve an extra advantage against those who have not.

IF THIS IS A SKILLED GAME, WHY GIVE THOSE WHO HAVE PLAYED LONGER AN ADVANTAGE OVER THOSE WHO HAVE PLAYED LESS. DON'T THEY ALREADY HAVE AN ADVANTAGE FROM PLAYING LONGER?--BUT THEY ALSO GET SPECIALIZED RUNES PAGES.

KzooCrasher2 votes

For starters what you said is hyperbole the math is right but you completely exaggerate the difference they make. Yes no runes vs runes is a huge advantage but good runes vs completely optimal runes is a much much smaller advantage. So tiny in most cases it will have no effect on the match up. I'm not saying people need hundreds of hours in before they deserve "an advantage", what I am saying is that advantage is tiny and any difference in skill will give you a much bigger edge. I personally love runes it gives us the ability to customize our champions before we even enter the rift and since I have every champion all i have left to do is get every rune to customize things with.

foofymonkey3 votes

Thank you for elaborating your opinion. I like that you agree with that the hundreds of hours is ridiculous. This is a video game--it's not a way of life for some people. It was a way for me to communicate to family and friends in the military. I just don't like that is takes people 4 years to own everything. I've been playing for three years, and I don't even own all the champions. I own about 72 of the 122.

I refuse to purchase a champion for money. I do own quite a few skins though to support RIOT. I do like the game, or else I wouldn't have wrote this criticism about runes.

I just truly believe the aspect of the Runes System right now is toxic, and could be greatly improved.

MrBuffington1 votes

Word on the street is there's a sale going to happen before the end of the year

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