Highly imbalanced gameplay

Abyss Gear Syxx·12/18/2014, 4:07:53 PM·1 votes·1,153 views

Despite all your efforts, I think starting with the visual update the game has become far more unbalanced than previous. The jungle is very hard to clear and this is the center of discussion. The jungle previously or to my knowledge is supposed to be where a person creates opportunities for their team either by gaining extra exp so that the top laner can get more exp and to gank for your allies. By making jungle clear this impossible you've done more than cripple the typical jungler in doing this at all. We start with many characters who are built for jungle originally unable to do it well at all. Master Yi, Rengar, Udyr and more are unable to contribute to their team because more often than not they have to go to base after hitting level 2 regardless of the runes and even if they have to do it at level 3 it takes away the whole entire opportunity of the first blood gank.

So? You give them more gold on machete while lowering the base value of items? That doesn't increase clear times for starters. Second of all you force them into a build path just because you wanted to balance the amount of gold people would get from jungle. Jungle is supposed to be for opportunities and you are mistaken if you think that nobody takes them now that you lower the amount of gold they give without machete. All this has done is forced most junglers into starting the same way and the junglers who cannot clear sufficiently this way are put at a disadvantage. You might be thinking that all junglers can clear with machete and that is only true at the cost of cutting down their combat strength. Follow up with the fact that the machete costs more, so why even bother changing it at all? I never picked up machete or enjoyed feral flare before the visual update patch because instead of getting useful damage stats like hmm 50 ad for 1500 you instead spending it on an enchant that has to be stacked. So what you are saying is after spending 1500 I am actually behind because I didn't take the 50 ad instead which actually scales with my champion. If I don't take this however I have wasted my time and money up to that point assuming that I got that money from jungle in the first place.

This is having a lot of effect on laning phase as well. If players don't play low risk junglers like fiddle, warwick, jarvan, lee sin, and rek'sai they are already behind. These characters have a further advantage because of these almost all of them besides warwick have more than one mechanic in each ability. "I knock you up and get a gap closer. The initial setup is a buff plus it can do damage" "I get vision, do damage, leap to you and do more damage but on the percentile all in the same move" Compare these to the junglers that are having problems and the perspective becomes clearer. These champions that are safe picks have been given move sets that are too extreme considering how safe they are in the first place while high risk champions such as rengar and yi are given very simple, easy to counter mechanics that take forever to build up. That's imbalance.

In a game where this happens, getting a kill on the team with the safe junglers means that you are poised to win because not only does your jungler produce more gold from farming but he also can gank more and do it safely because they don't have to worry about their hp as they finish their camps but also the fact is that once a lane gets that money from a kill it might not be immediate but the next one or two usually pushes them over the top. And if you consider that most people don't like doing support or that two people are in bot lane so it is likely that double kills do occur down there either by natural order or by ganks it becomes much more difficult as the team that is behind to do anything about it.

Your response might be, "Hey build some defenses." That requires money which most of the time in these situations the enemy team has a hold on every spot available to make earning money nearly impossible. The money per 5 items have been severely nerfed and there are very few long term choices and none are especially for a laner. So say you do spend your time trying to farm up anyways. That means this empowered team either can pick you off, or you are huddled together enjoying 1/4 1/5 exp from minions woot while they are probably 2 levels ahead. Only last hit produces the gold so only one of these huddled up characters are getting anything, and while you may get a single turret you are now set up for the worst. You can be taken out by their team that has the advantage already so it isn't too hard, you can get a turret while they split push and take your other ones, they could get objectives like baron and dragon all day or a combination of all of them since they do have the lead and thus the money to ward. These aren't all certainties of course but it happens alot. Wards on that note have been given to every player. Even in gold they aren't used by carries and even when the support uses all four of theirs it's not enough.

Most games where these circumstances go out of control at 20 minutes in. That is to say that the enemy is easily able to get a kill a minute. And so you are thinking to yourself, "You/Your team should play more passively." This does nothing if you are behind, you will remain behind. Let's follow up with saying that this is normal in gold play and downward. And at this point the only thing really left is either counter play or 'skill'. Do you know that as much as you advocate people not being toxic that most games are? Most of the time people don't like being given advice after a death, they think that's harassment. Sometimes people are rude or arguing before the game even starts and because that one mistake is crucial to how the flow of the game goes people's tensions are high creating that environment.

So what I am really saying is, I feel like this game is right now is highly influenced by safe junglers and provide too much of a reward for their team while high risk junglers are not able to provide much of anything anymore because of how difficult it is to do anything in jungle right now. I talked to a rioter the other day pointing out an error with trying to gank someone using the bush. Minions at red can see an invader and if the invader is close it will attack them. For melee range characters this ruins their chance to gank as the minions shooting projectiles at someone else will alert the other player to your existence. A ward will often be spotted by their teammates and countered with a ward of your own. They admitted it wasn't in their intentions but it was to get rid of the jungler juke for avoiding damage on these camps. By taking the money off of dragon they've only made it harder for players to do anything when behind. Turrets are the objective and yes they should be worth something but now they are the only objective save baron that is worth anything. Baron practically guards himself because he is a gear check and if you can't do him he will kill you regardless of number.

This has altogether created a very imbalanced experience from my perspective.

20 Comments

TehNACHO12/18/2014, 4:28:05 PM2 votes

...Master Yi, Rengar, and Udyr are...what?

First of all, Master Yi wants to go back to base right away to pick up a trailblazer. Second, Udyr tends to have no trouble clearing through the jungle at early levels. Hell, oftentimes without a leash too. While I can't speak for Rengar (although a certain friend of mine has spoken well of him), I think you're just uninformed about these champs. Hell, reading through, you just seem really uninformed about the new jungle in general.

LordCylar12/18/2014, 5:49:12 PM1 votes

Dude, I main Udyr and I can tell you that he can clear the whole new JG without ever backing or having a leash... you just need to start red, simte it, go blue and then clear the rest of the jg...

TeemoJenkins12/18/2014, 4:12:08 PM1 votes

Both sides have the same jungle.... wouldn't this indicate the gameplay is balanced? What balance are you seeking? The force is out of balance... kill the jedi!

IronChefBoyardee12/22/2014, 8:01:01 PM1 votes

First things first, Rek'sai uses two abilities to get the gap closer and knockup, not one, and she has not %dmg in her kit besides her unburrowed E which isn't a %dmg ability like Maokai (for example).

All these changes mean is that the jungler now takes skill and not hurr durr I'ma farm for 30 minutes then 1v5 the team hurr durr

Abyss Gear Syxx12/22/2014, 10:02:58 PM1 votes

Actually I'd like to add this on since I brought up the thought of rek'sai. New champions that come out are both complex and have a high yield for damage early game compared to their previously released low tier counterparts. And so these low tier character are seldom seen outside of jungle without farming because of their lacking or they do have to take advantage of the items that get nerfed thereafter. Twisted fate is a great example of this. Twisted fate isn't a jungler, just another good character that is basically not being played because of his itemization being nerfed or changed many times. In the story of twisted fate, it takes a lot more farming and taking advantage of enemy positioning in order to do good with him. This may be hard to do since new mid laners don't need any of that to sling damage at him the same way where champions like rek sai early game are a lot more powerful than champions like Master Yi early game.

The reason why jungling is being brought into the equation is because rather than skill it's speed of clear. The speed of clear is the issue because champions who can clear fast or clear safely without having to base as much not only level up more [thus getting more stats] but also get a gold advantage. This does not even out because champs like this also have more opportunities to gank over champions that have to forego some of their early game might just to remain in jungle.

mikemil22312/23/2014, 11:51:10 AM1 votes

supports can build dmg and do more dmg than dmg champs like adc's. i can get triforce on leona and thornmail then dive an adc at full hp and then just walk right away. and thats with triforce alone. i know u can dodge and all that stuff but if i pick someone like sona and get lich ban and dfg i can burst and kill any dmg champ and just build tank after that if i want just for fun. supports either need nerfs or squishy champs need to be tankier from the base. especially adc's they need a slight sustain boost in my opinion

BluePolarizer12/18/2014, 10:14:19 PM1 votes

you can leashless clear on yi twice actually. meditation op.