The problem with ADCs is they do too much damage full stop

GrievousFetus·10/16/2017, 9:10:30 PM·119 votes·17,619 views

So, everyone is complaining about ADCs and supports right now, and I'm seeing a lot of ideas being floated around. People talking about "counterplay" like making ADCs have skillshot auto attacks and other silly stuff like that. I'm really against this, I think reliable damage, just like point and click CC, has an important place in the game.

I think the problem with ADCs is that currently, they simply do the most damage in the game full stop. Their damage values are absolutely fucking incredible. The ADC is the team's source of sieging and ranged DPS. They should do the most effective damage in a game because their damage is:

  1. reliable. auto attacks don't miss.
  2. safe. ADCs with peel are extremely difficult to catch and deliver all of their damage from a place of safety because they're ranged.
  3. constant. ADCs have 100% uptime on their access to their DPS because they do 90% of their damage with auto attacks.

ADCs should have moderate damage values that work out to the highest effective damage in the game only when played well because they deliver constant damage without downtime. The problem is ADCs are doing literally more damage than a mage or assassin does with their entire rotation using only auto attacks and their steroid. I see a lot of people describing ADC damage output as "burst per second", which I think is apt. Riot just did a huge assassin pass last year that loaded up assassins with all kinds of gates and delays on their damage (which you can potentially dodge in addition to this), but later in the game an ADC can kill squishies and even fighters or off-tanks in 1-2 seconds, no questions asked. melee champs can be seen closing the gap between them and an ADC as a melee champion, successfully getting on top of them, the supposed success condition in a melee versus ranged encounter, and they'll just die regardless because the ADC bursts them with their autos alone.

ADC play patterns aren't the problem (that said, ADCs with conditionally gated damage like Caitlyn's DPS skyrocketing when she consistently lands Es and aims at people trapped by W is still preferably to strictly right click ADCs. Kog'Maw for instance actively avoids using his damaging abilities in a skirmish because they negatively affect his DPS from strictly auto attacking), their damage is simply too high full stop. It trivializes the DPS aspect of the role because they essentially become assassins with 100% uptime.

262 Comments

RiotNot Surrendering10/17/2017, 12:38:55 AM87 votes

My personal opinion on the matter is that the game that was built at the beginning with: Burst > Sustained > Tank > Burst was one that worked.

It also has costs, namely people dying instantly with very little counterplay.

When we changed unconditional burst to not be a viable strategy (think old LB, old Rengar), we also removed one of the checks for ADC's. On the flip side, mages are now more sustained damage threats in themselves (since their power is translated) and can rival ADC's in mid game as well.

Ultimately, we could give sustained AP the best late game scaling (as champs that can miss), but it is not a trivial problem space and there are a lot of run-on problems from solves in this space.

Needless to say, we certainly hear you and something we debate about on a regular basis and are not particularly happy with, but again it is a large and difficult project.

iLBGAMing10/16/2017, 9:17:47 PM5 votes

LUL meanwhile let's these champions right? Zed Chogath Fizz Kayn Khazix Katarina Malzahar Yasuo Fiora Jax

But in all seriousness if we lowered the ADC damage then they would be completely pointless to have in team comps since they are the squishiest role of all, aka get one shot by Kayn Zed Katarina.

But what I think they need to do with ADC's is make them make use of their abilities similarly like Varus Corki instead of brainlessly auto attacking an enemy to death.