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Lets Talk Cho'Gath

Xholu··8 votes·1,316 views

Let me start this thread by stating that I believe that patch 7.4 was a LARGE nerf to Cho'Gath, details to follow:

Relevant information: R - Cooldown 80 seconds (unchanged) R - Health per stack 180 -> 140 R - Health at 6 stacks 1080 -> 840

Math: To achieve 6 stacks before 7.4, it took 480 seconds and could be achieved by ulting any unit. To achieve the equivalent health that 6 stacks provided previously (1080), it takes ~7.7 stacks which I am going to round up to 8. 8 Stacks requires 640 seconds, assuming that you are able to feast conveniently placed champions or epic creatures on cooldown. So in the optimal scenario, it takes Cho'Gath 160 more seconds, and 3 champion kills to achieve the same level of effectiveness.

Gameplay: Before patch 7.4, half of the cooldown of Feast was restored when used on minions/non-epic monsters. This allowed Cho'Gath to ult around 40 second windows of inability which can be strategically planned (before recalling, after you kill your laner, ect). After patch 7.4 Cho'Gath is forced into large 80 second windows of inability that effectively reduce his map pressure by half (or more).

Why is this a problem: Cho'Gath used to enjoy a quick power spike in health that could be leveraged over opponents and made him an effective early game tank in addition to having only 40 seconds of downtime after ulting which leaves him with opportunities to kill his lane opponent.

Now Cho'Gath takes twice the time to scale, has more downtime, and can only accomplish the same amount of scaling if he kills multiple enemy champions.

What riot's stance seems to be: If you eat a champion every 80 seconds you can scale almost as well as meta picks.

What needs to change to revert this nerf: Health per stack needs to be increased to pre-patch levels. Minions need to reduce the cooldown by half again.

7 Comments

Xholu2 votes

This patch has reduced Cho'Gaths base scaling and increased his downtime significantly for minimal increases in scaling. If a Cho'Gath happens to gain enough feast stacks to receive a significant bonus (7-10) kills, then he probably would win the game regardless of the extra health.

Overall Cho'Gath has gained late game power in exchange for early game power. He didn't need a power curve adjustment, he needed a buff/quality of life change. Honestly just removing the death penalty would have been sufficient.

TheI3igDaddy2 votes

Or they can actually buff his E instead of constantly messing around with his ult.

Having 3 skills plus a decent ult is better than 2.5 skills and an overpowered ult.

Xholu2 votes

While I wouldn't argue with a flat out buff, I think his E is fun and important part of his kit.

Cho'Gath's Q and W both have long cooldowns and can be avoided fairly easily due to long casting animations. His E gives him a form of consistent damage that helps him deal with mobile melee heroes that would otherwise have their way with him after dodging his abilities.

Plus its fun to apply corrupting potion DOT to your opponent when he's standing behind minions! :D

TheI3igDaddy1 votes

I think it's a good skill, yes, but it's probably the worst toggle spell in the game simply because there's no REASON to toggle it.

Yeah, I know you should toggle it off when you're trying to siege someone's tower, but that's only early on in the game. Mid to late, Cho should be the one taking turret shots anyway.

I'm hoping that Riot gives Cho players incentive to toggle it off, AKA possibly a flat armor / MR buff without the spikes flying. That way Cho players can choose if they need to be bulkier or if they can forgo it for extra damage.

Tychusfindlay9191 votes

No.

Keep health stacks the same, reduce cd of ult by 10 and see where that leaves chogath. More opportunities to chomp and scale.

GigaPube1 votes

not much of a critical thinker are you? or maybe you didnt see:

Food Memory: Cho’Gath no longer loses Feast stacks on death

believe it or not but diamonds average about 5.5 deaths on chogath per game. this means these changes will do nothing but benefit him as time goes on during each game, meaning unless the game has snowballed (which unfortunately it does quite a lot these days) then chogath only gets stronger past 6 full items, which i guess is the way riot wants chogath to be. also since most people are below diamond this will help him get more playing time and potentially a higher winrate at least throughout lower elos

Xholu2 votes

The health takes longer to ramp up, and is therefore less valuable. The cooldown on his ult will prevent him from snowballing. The Food Memory is a nice addition, but not worth what was removed from the kit in its place.

--Also I've been diamond almost every season and was awarded challenger season 3. I play a decent amount of Cho across my accounts and am speaking from experience. This change might help some lower elo players not lose stacks, but is a huge nerf for experienced players that want to dominate the map.

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