Is Riot Even Aware of What Karma Is?

SilverSquid·1/27/2017, 6:22:38 PM·16 votes·2,521 views

Taken from the late "Ask Riot" - JANNA MID AND WARWICK SKINS

As far as champs normally played as support going to mid (or other lanes), those would face the same “Is this healthy?” test. We think it’s great to see an enchanter like Karma there for example, given it allows for interesting play and team comps while having a lane that’s pretty fair and interactive for other players.

I think it's a bit dishonest to take Karma as an example here. A champion that historically worked mainly as a sololaner, that was reworked to still work as a sololaner and then got updated with the promise to still work as a sololaner, gets called out for surprisingly working as a healthy sololaner. Wat?

Am I getting cynical or is Riot implying Karma is mostly a support a stupid thing in general, when for all but last season she was more often played in solo lanes? And that only due to some heavily critisized changes to her? I mean, it feels like they said "There are some junglers, that work pretty well in botlane, Graves for example".... I mean, yeah....

I dunno. I feel flabbergasted. But let me know what you think!

37 Comments

Shadòw1/27/2017, 6:24:27 PM5 votes

Karma's a bitch

IxtaliKing1/28/2017, 6:11:09 AM4 votes

Well, I guess when a champ's lead designer no longer works at Riot it becomes fair game to be picked apart and destroyed. Their ignorance when it comes to Karma and her community is amazing, they aren't willing to have a discussion about her. But I guess it's okay because she's in LCS now and the pros like massive shield every few seconds, good job Riot :).

Sassmast3r1/27/2017, 6:38:44 PM4 votes

At this point, I'm so convinced that Riot does not care about Karma that I purposefully build her in the most toxic ways possible (in the few instances where I do play real games)... just to make people mad about her current state. She's an embarrassing excuse of a champion; like you stated in your previous post, the biggest issue with her is the fact that there is little-to-no skill expression in her kit. Why would I want to play a champion when the only thing that distinguishes me from an LCS player using Karma is the likelihood that I will utilize mantra at the proper time, and land my Q. This effectively causes the opposite of what occurs with champions (usually assassins) like Lee Sin, where the character is not only relatively challenging to master, but there are numerous facets to the character's kit that make it much simpler to distinguish between an LCS player and a new player. This in turn makes him much more entertaining to play, knowing that there is something to learn/strive towards.

I've seen innumerable posts concerning potential changes for Karma that would make her either more interesting or less toxic, and I actually do not think Riot has ever read a single one of those posts. I'm not sure why Riot is so lost as to what they could do with Karma, because the opportunity is tremendous and would have a great payoff, but I just don't think it's worth fighting for anymore. I'd rather make so many people aggravated with how Karma currently works that she receives nerf after nerf until her win-rate becomes absolutely dismal that they simply have to modify her.

Maximum Morde1/27/2017, 6:37:41 PM3 votes

I know. Morgana and Karma are solo laners played as supports. Not supports played as solo laners.

REDREX71/27/2017, 10:55:16 PM2 votes

I swear if Riot makes Karma a dedicated support and her mage secondary I will have to drop her from being my main. Karma a solo laner. Rito get it correct.

SteamedSuperior1/27/2017, 7:24:30 PM2 votes

Karma is perfectly fine. You jsut have to adjust your play style a little to lane against her. Not a hard lane all. Just dodge her q's and you'll be fine.

LankPants1/28/2017, 7:33:20 AM2 votes

They're as unaware about Karma as they are about Zyra.

SirTeemoMushroom1/27/2017, 8:32:45 PM1 votes

karma : full magic pen runes , full ap = 1 Q+R = 500 dmg to adc on level 6 =] how do i know? i used to play a lot of karma on s6

Big Lincoln1/27/2017, 11:01:38 PM1 votes

the real question is

are you?

Erockandroll1/27/2017, 11:18:02 PM1 votes

Personally, I really don't think of either or, She's a Utility mage that can go either or, and it would be okay to have that duality.

The issue with that duality is that it's so incredibly swingy based on the state of the meta. Since a) if damage is meta, teams won't favor a utility mage in the solo lane. and b) The recent buffs to enchanter options, enhance her ability to support. and c) Historically speaking, any champ with multiple options never seemed to last, as Riot was obligated to balance out the most OP of those options.

ChaddyFantome1/27/2017, 6:38:01 PM1 votes

Reminds me of back in season 4 when people would say i am trolling for playing Lulu support.

MisterShameless2/7/2017, 11:00:46 PM1 votes

Hey SilverSquid, seems like Malzahar is heading down the same path as Karma. Nerfing solo lane rather than nerfing/fixing the support lane. A lot of people are upset by this and seeing all the feedback has a striking resemblance of what Karma has been going through, from Mid laner rebalanced into a Support, with a dedicated small fanbase before even the rework, Riot not understanding his complex identitiy, and "experiment with changes until it works" while ignoring Malzahar Mains' advise as to how to handle the situation.

{quoted}

Remember when Malzahar was a niche anti assassin mage mid laner played by a small but dedicated base of fans with favorable match ups into many of Riot's clear favorites like Yasuo but even or bad match ups into long range poke mages. Remember that? Remember also when Malzahar could be played in the jungle as an AD mage that scaled into a split pusher that specialized in melting towers by swarming voidlings, with a high skill floor but rewarding ceiling? Remember that?

Last tweet by David Capurro in May "Probably hotfixing Malzahar tomorrow. Is he OP in mid lane as well? Or mostly in the jungle?"

lol, truly a job well done. Just give it up, David Capurro has long forgotten who Malzahar even is, the only people who care are the handful of Malzahar players that were there since before the rework, praying he wouldn't fuck him up like they did 3/4 "juggernauts" and watching as Riot's neurotic balance team fumbled again and again trying to fix David Capurro's mistakes while he was hiding in a corner somewhere preparing to rework the assassins (good work there too lmao).

This seems like a really good topic and time for you to bring up another post on Karma. I also learned some interesting things that could also be used for Karma in what Riot seems to be doing wrong, definitely something worth looking into and take a few notes for later.

Another thing I wanted to bring up people seem to be arguing that Karma was never a mid laner to begin with and was always considered a support (there are people arguing that she is a mid laner). I really hope this doesn't effect Karma in the future, but I am glad people are arguing that she is a mid laner utility mage.

Link to one of the discussions if you're interested in checking it out. http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/i1OpWsbE-malzahar-nerfs-need-to-be-made-to-support-malz-only?comment=0005000100000000

I know this is an old thread, but it may seem that my conclusion of what Riot thinks may have some truth to it and it may not be a misinterpretation. One of my fear may be coming true where the community is starting to believe Karma is a support rather than a mid laner (of course we went over the "class isn't the same as a role" topic, but you know what I mean by this). I do believe this is just from Riot's "advertising" Karma as such, which is what I believe is making people change their opinion of what Karma should be played as.

SwiftKitten881/28/2017, 12:30:25 PM1 votes

i sometimes wonder the same thing. you know for four season... nidalee was a mid/top laner will some viability in support, (albeit limited).

the 5.3 changes lust felt like... well sorry nidalee mains.. we know u like to lane with her but FU we don't care. not only are we going to fail the balace her in the jungle for TWO YEARS. we are going to completely gut her laning abilities, and THEN completely gut her jungle.. so u can't use here anywhere viably in ranked.

SwiftKitten882/1/2017, 10:58:01 PM1 votes

yeah well riot still thinks Nidalee is a jungler... some maybe they give them back their proper roles at the same time...

Winterkill1/27/2017, 8:56:05 PM1 votes

To criticize her kit:

Her Q and Mantra Q - Q should lose its range to fit a battlemage more. Mantra Q could be targetable instead of just shooting out . . . . which would help Mage Karma a lot.

W and Mantra W - W is not bad. W+R needs to be adjusted or replaced with something that isn't so toxic. It needs to fit her . . . better.

E and Mantra E - E is not bad. E+R is the biggest injustice. Shield bomb fit her so much.

Riot wants her to be an enchanter.