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Going over RIOTs reasoning for mana changes

Scream Engineer·4/19/2018, 6:39:29 AM·3 votes·779 views

So these mana changes are... how do I say this, strange. Let's look at Riot's reasoning and why they think it is a good thing. I'll try to give Riot a fair chance and not cherry pick my quotes, but first we will look at some maths. We'll use Ahri since she is a staple midlane mage.

**Current **Ahri has a manapool of 334 with a growth of 50 mana per level and 1.2 mana regen with a growth of 0.16 mana regen per level. At max level that's 1184 mana and 3.92 mana regen. PBE Ahri has a manapool of 418 with a growth of 25 mana per level and 1.6 mana regen with a growth of 0.16 mana regen per level. At max level that's 843 mana and 4.32 mana regen.

This means Ahri losses a total of 341 mana max level. Ahri also gains 0.4 mana regen at all levels to make up for the item 1056 nerfs per this statement.

We’re increasing mana regen on the champions most affected by the Doran’s Ring changes, such that the champions will feel similar to their current state if they buy a Doran’s Ring, and better about their mana at very low levels if they by a number of other starting items.

That's a net loss of 472.6 Gold in base stats, a bit over a item 1056 and a item 2003 at the beginning of the game. It's about the same for other mages excluding AurelionSol Morgana Karma and Ryze who are not affected by these changes at all.

The result of these changes is that mages will get more spellcasts at low levels, but will remain at risk of OOM'ing themselves even after their first back, compared to live. We’ve seen mages solve a lot of their mana issues with a single component for quite a while, and we don’t think that’s good for the mages, or the game at large. Mages should run out of mana if they’re casting constantly in long fights. Mages should pay clear costs when they use their spells to clear waves quickly and safely, especially if they’re not investing into items that specialize in mana. We want to increase conflict around map objectives that provide sustain (Blue Buff and Ocean Drake), where recently the cost for ceding those objectives to the enemy has been much lower. Source

While yes this is true, this should be true for all characters that use mana, not just mages. I mean character's like Jhin Caitlyn Fiora Darius OrnnJanna Nami (I'm not singling these guys out just saying other classes in general) should also have problems with casting a lot in lane. But you aren't nerfing those othe classes mana.

I'm personally very in favor of the mana changes. Mages have been dominant Mid lane in competitive for multiple seasons now Source

The reason we don't see mages in other lanes often is because mages are not viable in other lanes or the jungle, and straight nerfing most of them wont change that.

While I do expect this to be an overall nerf to mages, it's not necessarily a blanket nerf. Champions who start Dark Seal or Corrupting Potion are strictly buffed before first base, and it's possible some previous D-Ring users migrate to these items as well and are stronger early. After first base I agree it's definitely a nerf, but in my opinion this is necessary for competitive play, and Mages have some room (though not a ton) for nerfs in Solo Q. Source

Dude, most of your players aren't competitive players and where are the compensation buffs. Almost every assassin that used Duskblade got compensation buffs and not a single mage is getting one. This isn't a thing you can wait on either, by going through with this patch you will alienate a lot of mage players to the point where they may leave the game.

I agree that infinite mana sustain is a problem for mages but could that be due to that fact that item 3040 gives most mages over double their lvl 18 manapool and decreases their own manacosts too? Could it be due to the fact that item 3802 gives 10% of you max mana back when you lvl? could it be that some mages have mana returns for hitting their spells in a certain way Cassiopeia Annie? Could it be that at 350 Gold item gives 66% of a champs starting mana? Could it be that Manaflow band gives you 1% of your max mana ever 5 seconds?

My point is mana items give a lot of mana, and if you are having problems with mages having to much mana stustain, why not nerf their mana items? And if you don't want to do that why not do an entire pass on resource management as a whole? It feels like shit to back against a Katarina Riven Yasuo because you run out of mana.

Also Riot i think you should really watch this video about alienating your player base. https://youtu.be/IIi2oJiqO00

TLDR:

  • Mages are losing about 450 gold worth in stats
  • Mana Changes are heading in the right direction but need A LOT more internal testing.
  • Why just mages?
  • If our mana is worth more our skillshots should be worth more too
  • Why not change mage items?
  • Competitive scene does not equal all of league
  • If you nerf mages out of mid we need to be able to play them somewhere else
  • Stop alienating your players

1 Comments

Chembaron Yamada4/19/2018, 7:13:45 AM1 votes

How I understood it, it's not just about mages spamming skills in lane, but their ability to avoid enemy confrontation that way. You make 2 steps out of tower range (thanks to mid lane being so short), throw your skills out to clear the wave, then return to tower waiting for the next wave.

Riot wants laners to interact with each other, that's not new. And while other classes might be able to clear waves, they usually can't do it in a way that completely removes enemy interaction. The combination of strong wave clear from range + a very short lane is what leads to that problem they want to tackle, at least it seems like that for me.