I think Riven needs some minor kit adjusments

yuuum chan·Apr 16, 2019·1 votes·1,894 views

I want to clarify that I don't think Rivens kit is broken or op, like some people seem to imply. However, I do think that some parts of her kit need tweaking, because right now there are some areas that I find to be unfun in certain ways. These are mainly centered around the spamability of her spells. Now, I realize that that is where ALL her power comes from, as none of her spells are particuarly great by themselves, and also where her skill expression lies. But, as a counter to that, I find that her spells are almost so spamable that riven players are not really punished for using their spells like mad, even when it's just for no real purpose.

The main reason for this is that cooldown reduction is easier than ever to get, and get very early. You can easily have 45% cdr by level 10 even on a normal, non-snowball game, which is a fact a champion like Riven can absolutely abuse, and I think therefore should be fixed accordingly, without necessarily nerfing her to the ground.

There are a few main points I have that are more suggestions than anything, and Idk if we should introduce all of them, some of them or maybe none of them. Maybe I'm just an idiot.

My first suggestion is concerning her q. Right now, her q is easy damage, quick gap closer, quckier map movement and general mobility. I think this is too much for such a basic ability that is easy to use and, most importantly, has such a low cooldown. I don't think the ability being able to do all these things is bad in of itself, I think it's a problem that it's able to do all of them without any thought to them, so to speak. So my proposal would be this:

Increase it's cooldown at all levels. BUT, in return, give it an effect that reduces it's cooldown by an amount when it hits a minion that amounts to a bit longer than what it's currently at, and more when it hits an enemy champion so that it's cooldown ends up equal to what it is now (up to a max, so that it doesn't like reset instantly on a massive minion wave or something). Doing this wouldn't nerf it's damage in combat what so ever, since it's most likely will a champion, but it will nerf it's the ability to travel the map quickly, as well as gap close. This way, Riven can't just infinitely spam her q to gap close to pretty much any ranged champion without any chance of kiting, and neither can she use it to dodge abilities quite as much. And, if she does decide to use it that way, she'll have to CHOOSE to do that over choosing to use it for damage, which is something that tests her skill.

Secondly would be to reduce the duration of her E to one second, but in turn increase it's power. Right now, at level 5, with 45% cdr, it almost has a 3 sec cooldown, with a 1.5-second duration, meaning that you only actually have 1.5 seconds to damage her. That is, quite frankly, insane, considering that it's purpose is not to be used for long term survival, but to block super important, big abilities, like Garen's R, och or Jhin's fourth bullet. Right now, it's not being used for that. Right now, it's pretty much just spammed on cooldown to constantly block damage. It's not really a fun thing to play against, as it's almost impossible to get in damage, and the riven player isn't really punished for making a mistake since it's such a short window of opportunity.

To mend this problem, simply reduce it's duration, to 1 second, or maybe even 0.5 seconds. But, in turn, increase it's power massively. It should be used to block big spells, and if a riven player does that, she should be rewarded by blocking that entire spell. If she fails, she should be punished by a long down time. If you think this is too drastic a nerf, then perhaps we could add another effect where if her shield blocks a certain amount of damage, it's cooldown is reduced. So, let's say she uses it too block a big garen ulti, shielding 600 damage. Blocking that high amount of damage is the shields purpose, so not only is she rewarded with blocking all the damage, but the shields cooldown is reduced by 2 seconds, reducing it to a 1 sec cooldown, again making it comparable to her current cooldown.

Tl;Dr; I think right now, Rivens short cooldowns allow her to get away with gameplay that she shouldn't be able too, as well as make it very unfun for the opponnets playing against her, now that cdr is so easy to get. I think modifying her abilities to reward aggressive gameplay but punish her for using her abilities nilly-willy or incorrectly should punish her more.

13 Comments

5050BSApr 16, 20192 votes

Yep like fixing the animation cancellation bugs

8Belthazor8Apr 16, 20192 votes

Except for that little hp regen increase, Riven did not get any buffs since she was barely playable, an underdog against most of the champions on toplane. Even now she is in hard struggle aganst numerous champions. She is op yes, but not that kind of op which has no counterplay so it breaks the game. There are a lot of counterpicks and counterplays against Riven. If they nerf Riven now it will become a double nerf whenever Riot decides to change the runes and items again. I think we can all agree that Conqueror is not healthy in its current form. It would be fine if they just limited the stacks with a timelimit. Since they refuse to do that for some reason I think it needs an other rework. I'd like to see a healthy new Conqueror first then nerf Riven if she is still obsessive.

Her mobility is a compensation for having very bad base stats compared to other top laners. Messing with it would destroy Riven completely. Right now I think a decrease in AD ratio would be fine.

VoraciousXApr 16, 20191 votes

Disagree, Riven gets 40 or 45%, always has and always will, that's WHY her spells are so spammable, and it's the only way she's allowed to survive. Riven is strong right now because of Conqueror and Spear of Shojin, those are literally the only reasons. She can stack Conqueror extremely well. That gives her a much stronger early game. Sure, with Spear of Shojin, an item that literally resets cooldowns on auto attacks, she's much more spammable. That item doesn't need to exist. Once that and Conqueror are solved, she'll be fine and much less "spammy to where she can use abilities without worrying".

Riven is ALL ABOUT CDR. You can't do anything worthy of damage without it, once you get it, you become a lot stronger. The first suggestion is terrible, and I'll explain why. Riven cannot outrun Tryndamere, Riven can SOMEWHAT outrun Fiora, Riven can SOMEWHAT outrun Irelia, Riven cannot outrun Gnar once he has frozen mallet, Riven can sometimes outrun Tahm Kench, depending on if he hits Q, Riven can sometimes outrun Trundle, depending on pillar placement, Riven cannot outrun Wukong, and Riven cannot outrun Yasuo. Conversely, Riven cannot engage on ANY ADC without flash. increasing these cooldowns will make her too weak for the sake of nerfing her instead of the real problem. Let's also mention that CDR isn't any easier to get for Riven now than before. Spear of Shojin is 3400 gold to get 20% CDR, Black Cleaver is 3000. She's not likely to buy both, and if she did that'd be a lot of gold considering Death's Dance is also 3500 gold and she'd be wasting CDR unless she took transcendence, which she doesn't normally take.

E duration nerf: Quinn is a BIG reason I can think of not to do this. You need your E to fake out an all in on her, whereas she E's you back, and you shield the damage, and back off, then go back in when your E is off cooldown and hers isn't. Another reason is that her E is not meant to just "block big spells", it's meant as a versatile ability, and most often is used to engage because you're not wasting damage when you engage with E, or E>flash>W. Imagine you E flash W with your change, this would mean she's overlapping her shield with CC, and no longer shields any damage when engaging like this. This also means it's harder for her TO engage because a lot of the time you need E + flash to close the gap to do this. Also Riven wouldn't be likely to ever block a Garen ult with her shield unless she was already low and he just ran at her to ult her. A lot of the time in Garen vs Riven you're gonna E into his Q, and fight him in his E, because that's the only way you win. If you don't E his Q, then he gets to silence you and kill you before you can shield his ult.

My suggestions? Make Conqueror not able to stack through auto attacks. This would lower some of Riven's conqueror stacking, putting her in a less overbearing spot, and also remove Spear of Shojin. This item doesn't need to exist in the first place.

yuuum chanApr 16, 20191 votes

I disagree with you saying that CDR is not easier to get now. It's mainly due to the new mastery system, specifically the one that gives you a free 10% cdr. That can make 40% cdr, much, much easier than ever before, for much cheaper. You mentioned that riven is unlikely to buy spear of shojin and bc, and while that's true, the point is that she doesn't need to, and that's the problem I'm trying to get to. And while I agree that Shojin is definitely a problem, I'd argue that this problem existed before the spear did, and before conq did as well. Back then, Riven would just use grasp, klepto, and electro, and get pretty much the same results as currently. Because the problem with her kit right now is that she is dependant on cdr, and that cdr is too easy to get. As long as that is the case, she has to be changed accordingly.

For your first point, I understand the concern, but I would honestly argue that that's a weakness she can have. She's already a strong fighter, and doesn't necessarily need to run from those champions. I don't want riven's just spamming the shit of it every single second without abandon like their lives depended on it. But if you're that concerned about it, how about we actually make it so that if she hits a champion with all 3 procs of her q, the cooldown will get reduced beyond what it is now? THat way, she can make up for the lack of escape by being more capable of standing up against enemies?

As for your worries about specifically Quinn in lane, I believe that can be fixed by proper numbers on her e. I mentioned that I believe it should have an effect where it's cooldown is reduced whenever a high amount of dmg is blocked by it, and I believe you can fix riven's issue with ranged laners by setting the threshold at the right point, so that if riven blocks a Quinn q, followed by auto, she gets it back quicker. A similiar principle can be used for gnar e+q boomarang, and other ranged poke -combos. What exactly that number is, I don't know.

If you're still worried about her getting kited by ranged champions, I do have a bit of a solution, stolen from Garen. Give her e a burst of tenacity upon use. Similar to Garen, if you use it right before a powerful stun, root or slow, you can heavily reduce it's effectiveness. It wouldn't help against all champions, but it would help massively versus the likes of Thresh, Zyra, Mega-gnar and a bunch of others.

VoraciousXApr 16, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=yuuum chan,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=a3r7vbGb,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-04-16T05:57:46.960+0000)

I disagree with you saying that CDR is not easier to get now. It's mainly due to the new mastery system, specifically the one that gives you a free 10% cdr. That can make 40% cdr, much, much easier than ever before, for much cheaper. You mentioned that riven is unlikely to buy spear of shojin and bc, and while that's true, the point is that she doesn't need to, and that's the problem I'm trying to get to. And while I agree that Shojin is definitely a problem, I'd argue that this problem existed before the spear did, and before conq did as well. Back then, Riven would just use grasp, klepto, and electro, and get pretty much the same results as currently. Because the problem with her kit right now is that she is dependant on cdr, and that cdr is too easy to get. As long as that is the case, she has to be changed accordingly.

Riven doesn't use Transcendence, as I said. Also, even if she did, she would STILL have to buy 10% CDR. You need CDR as fast as possible and level 10 is not fast enough to have no CDR. She also didn't use grasp really, or Klepto really. She used Electrocute. ALSO she was not strong then, she was on the lower end of a 50% win rate.

For your first point, I understand the concern, but I would honestly argue that that's a weakness she can have. She's already a strong fighter, and doesn't necessarily need to run from those champions. I don't want riven's just spamming the shit of it every single second without abandon like their lives depended on it. But if you're that concerned about it, how about we actually make it so that if she hits a champion with all 3 procs of her q, the cooldown will get reduced beyond what it is now? THat way, she can make up for the lack of escape by being more capable of standing up against enemies?

A weakness she can have is not being able to escape champions that she already can't escape from? What? This would LOWER her ability to engage and disengage DRASTICALLY. She wouldn't be playable. You don't always use your abilities to kill people, Riven NEEDs her cooldowns to be low because that's the only way she can realistically get on top of someone. You wait out your Qs as long as possible, then engage with E>Q3, where your Q is back up by the time you land Q3>auto>W.

As for your worries about specifically Quinn in lane, I believe that can be fixed by proper numbers on her e. I mentioned that I believe it should have an effect where it's cooldown is reduced whenever a high amount of dmg is blocked by it, and I believe you can fix riven's issue with ranged laners by setting the threshold at the right point, so that if riven blocks a Quinn q, followed by auto, she gets it back quicker. A similiar principle can be used for gnar e+q boomarang, and other ranged poke -combos. What exactly that number is, I don't know.

You're not understanding, Riven NEEDS the duration on E. One second is not enough time to NOT take damage from her E, because it'll likely make faking her out MUCH MORE DIFFICULT. She already loses more than she wins to Quinn, and she always has, but this would make her lose that matchup a lot more. Hell, she would probably lose the shield before Quinn jumped on top of her even if Quinn used it directly after Riven used E.

If you're still worried about her getting kited by ranged champions, I do have a bit of a solution, stolen from Garen. Give her e a burst of tenacity upon use. Similar to Garen, if you use it right before a powerful stun, root or slow, you can heavily reduce it's effectiveness. It wouldn't help against all champions, but it would help massively versus the likes of Thresh, Zyra, Mega-gnar and a bunch of others.

With any of these changes, vs Zyra and Thresh, this would still not be enough, as she would die by the time she was CCed. Also tenacity doesn't work for Thresh, because his flay is a displacement, and if you're using your E, it's usually to DODGE such abilities as a Mega Gnar W, not get hit by it. Riven's E is meant to dodge abilities while also taking hits by the undodgeable ones, unless there is a specific matchup where she has to take a hit with her E in order to win it.

Riven was NOT OP or even slightly strong before Conqueror and Spear of Shojin came. She wasn't even OP when Conqueror was first introduced. NOW though, Conqueror gives bonus stats per stack, making her early game stronger, and THIS IS WHY RIVEN IS OVERBEARING. She stacks it too fast.

yuuum chanApr 16, 20191 votes

Some builds on riven absolutely used transcendence, alongside Ionian boots for 40% rush, and those builds did use grasp or klepto. It wasn't as common as the electrocute build, sure, but it was all around more effective, although not quite as exciting or flashy. The reason her winrate is shit is that she's one of those champions who always have a worse winrate than her actual strength would suggest, similarly to Ryze or Vayne, because of her skillcap, and that most people were using the shittier electrocute-lethality build.

You're missing my point. I think it's fine for her to be unable to escape because I don't think she needs to escape. Riven is not some weak push-over that can't stand up to other fighters, she is more than capable of killing Trundle, Fiora or others on even footing, assuming equal skill level. It's a weakness similar to Darius, where he has to stand and fight, and if he can't, he loses automatically. It does limit her vs ranged, sure, but again, that's a weakness I think she can take. She's a very strong melee vs melee figher, which, similarly to Darius has to come at the cost of strength vs ranged champions. And, giving her the tools to more easily get closer to ranged champions would necessitate reducing her ability to fight other melee's, maybe even less bulk or something else. Personally, I prefer Riven as a melee fighter, and I want to focus more on that side of her, which will have to come at the cost of power vs range.

And, with that in mind, I also think it's fine for her to lose vs Quinn, because Quinn is one of those absolutely lane-dominating champions. I mean, basically crushes half the melee in top lane already, just add Riven to the list. It wouldn't make her in anyway unusual. If you still think that's a problem, well, honestly, that's more to do with Quinn being insane than anything.

And, okay, fine the cc-reduction idea doesn't really work. But I do believe some kind of similar effect could absolutely be used. Perhaps a slow resistance for a short time, specifically to deal with a frozen mallet and Thresh e, which are probably some of the more important factors for any melee brusier in the game.

And lastly, I want to make it clear that I absolutely agree that Riven abuses conq, and that's what has driven her over the edge to insane levels. However, I would say that these problems with her kit exists outside of conq, and even if it was removed or nerfed, these issues would still be there, making it unfun and unfair for her opponents.

VoraciousXApr 16, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=yuuum chan,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=a3r7vbGb,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-16T06:38:09.328+0000)

Some builds on riven absolutely used transcendence, alongside Ionian boots for 40% rush, and those builds did use grasp or klepto. It wasn't as common as the electrocute build, sure, but it was all around more effective, although not quite as exciting or flashy. The reason her winrate is shit is that she's one of those champions who always have a worse winrate than her actual strength would suggest, similarly to Ryze or Vayne, because of her skillcap, and that most people were using the shittier electrocute-lethality build.

Off Meta ones: https://na.op.gg/champion/riven/statistics/top / https://u.gg/lol/champions/riven/build/ Also tell me how you're going to use Transcendence AND Cosmic Insight? You gonna go with Arcane Comet Riven? Lol. Klepto is not as effective. Riven doesn't have a keystone late game. That's the reason people don't use it. Also, you're melee and don't really wanna go in on most champions until level 3, and even then it's risky.

You're missing my point. I think it's fine for her to be unable to escape because I don't think she needs to escape. Riven is not some weak push-over that can't stand up to other fighters, she is more than capable of killing Trundle, Fiora or others on even footing, assuming equal skill level. It's a weakness similar to Darius, where he has to stand and fight, and if he can't, he loses automatically. It does limit her vs ranged, sure, but again, that's a weakness I think she can take. She's a very strong melee vs melee figher, which, similarly to Darius has to come at the cost of strength vs ranged champions. And, giving her the tools to more easily get closer to ranged champions would necessitate reducing her ability to fight other melee's, maybe even less bulk or something else. Personally, I prefer Riven as a melee fighter, and I want to focus more on that side of her, which will have to come at the cost of power vs range.

No, Riven is not a juggernaut, or a tank. She cannot stay in a fight forever. She can be bursted down EXTREMELY EASILY. She has low base HP, low HP regen, and no sustain outside of items. She is a skirmisher. This means she skirts IN AND OUT OF FIGHTS, she doesn't just go in and stay in until she kills her target. Fiora is a skill matchup, or was until Conqueror, Trundle would mostly win vs her, except Conqueror, etc.

And, with that in mind, I also think it's fine for her to lose vs Quinn, because Quinn is one of those absolutely lane-dominating champions. I mean, basically crushes half the melee in top lane already, just add Riven to the list. It wouldn't make her in anyway unusual. If you still think that's a problem, well, honestly, that's more to do with Quinn being insane than anything.

You're not understanding, Riven already loses to Quinn more than she wins, and this change would make her NEVER win to Quinn because the only way to beat her is for her to waste her E on your E, and go back in when your E is up and hers isn't.

And, okay, fine the cc-reduction idea doesn't really work. But I do believe some kind of similar effect could absolutely be used. Perhaps a slow resistance for a short time, specifically to deal with a frozen mallet and Thresh e, which are probably some of the more important factors for any melee brusier in the game.

I'm sorry but nothing like this would make nerfing the duration better, unless you have her a mini Olaf ultimate if she took damage. during her E, and I definitely don't think she needs that.

And lastly, I want to make it clear that I absolutely agree that Riven abuses conq, and that's what has driven her over the edge to insane levels. However, I would say that these problems with her kit exists outside of conq, and even if it was removed or nerfed, these issues would still be there, making it unfun and unfair for her opponents.

No, Conqueror is the ONLY reason she has climbed in win rate. Conqueror alone gave her around 4-6% iirc(I believe it was 4%). This is not true, and has not been true. If it was, she would have already been over a 53% win rate before Conqueror was introduced. Her stacking Conqueror is what's causing her to win. Think about it like this: Imagine all your abilities got 10-40 EXTRA base damage, and 10% of your entire kit's damage was true damage, compared to previously where you had to be in combat, and wait 4 seconds JUST TO GET THE TRUE DAMAGE. This is what Conqueror did to Riven.

yuuum chanApr 16, 20191 votes

Off Meta ones: https://na.op.gg/champion/riven/statistics/top / https://u.gg/lol/champions/riven/build/ Also tell me how you're going to use Transcendence AND Cosmic Insight? You gonna go with Arcane Comet Riven? Lol. Klepto is not as effective. Riven doesn't have a keystone late game. That's the reason people don't use it. Also, you're melee and don't really wanna go in on most champions until level 3, and even then it's risky.

I didn't say it was a late game key-stone, but we both know that klepto dominated top lane when it was released, because, honestly, it was the best choice out there. While it didn't give her raw power, the fact that it gave you free boots, smugglers market and a bunch of free items (especially pre-nerf on their sale value) made it so that she could snowball super hard and get her 45% cdr. Now people don't use it anymore, because conq is broken garbage, but it was used, and it was effective. It let her take trades she had no business taking, and just regen with hp pots or w/e.

And just to be curious, I went to mobafire and checked up on the top 5 builds. circa 50% of them used transcendence or cosmic insight.

No, Riven is not a juggernaut, or a tank. She cannot stay in a fight forever. She can be bursted down EXTREMELY EASILY. She has low base HP, low HP regen, and no sustain outside of items. She is a skirmisher. This means she skirts IN AND OUT OF FIGHTS, she doesn't just go in and stay in until she kills her target. Fiora is a skill matchup, or was until Conqueror, Trundle would mostly win vs her, except Conqueror, etc.

Except that Deaths dance is an item.

You're not understanding, Riven already loses to Quinn more than she wins, and this change would make her NEVER win to Quinn because the only way to beat her is for her to waste her E on your E, and go back in when your E is up and hers isn't.

No, I understood. And your point about Quinn honestly has more to do with Quinn being broken garbage that stomps everything. If your marker for champion is 'they need to be able to stand up against Quinn in lane', well then half of all melee in top lane is just hot garbage.

No, Conqueror is the ONLY reason she has climbed in win rate. Conqueror alone gave her around 4-6% iirc(I believe it was 4%). This is not true, and has not been true. If it was, she would have already been over a 53% win rate before Conqueror was introduced. Her stacking Conqueror is what's causing her to win. Think about it like this: Imagine all your abilities got 10-40 EXTRA base damage, and 10% of your entire kit's damage was true damage, compared to previously where you had to be in combat, and wait 4 seconds JUST TO GET THE TRUE DAMAGE. This is what Conqueror did to Riven.

We already covered this. You can't just look at a winrate as the only evidance of balance. When Azir was released, he was absolutely fucking broken, one of the most op champions since like Xin Zhao, but he didn't even break 50%. The reason for this is that Riven is a bit of a more difficult champion, and she's also a VERY popular one. It's like vayne, for example, even during metas where vayne has been very good, she's had a subpar winrate because of scrubs and newbies wanting to go Gosu with her. It's the same thing with Riven.

And Finally, what is it that allows her to stack Conq so quickly? It's the fact that she can spam her abilities on you without any real drawback for her. Specifically in the late game, it's her ability to spam Q to get on top of you, and then spam it again to damage you. Riven's E has always been a complete cancer ability

VoraciousXApr 16, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=yuuum chan,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=a3r7vbGb,comment-id=000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-16T12:14:28.238+0000)

I didn't say it was a late game key-stone, but we both know that klepto dominated top lane when it was released, because, honestly, it was the best choice out there. While it didn't give her raw power, the fact that it gave you free boots, smugglers market and a bunch of free items (especially pre-nerf on their sale value) made it so that she could snowball super hard and get her 45% cdr. Now people don't use it anymore, because conq is broken garbage, but it was used, and it was effective. It let her take trades she had no business taking, and just regen with hp pots or w/e.

Boxbox used it once or twice in a video. That was it. Riven was using electrocute mostly with inspiration SECONDARY.

And just to be curious, I went to mobafire and checked up on the top 5 builds. circa 50% of them used transcendence or cosmic insight.

Mobafire is not something everyone follows and most stuff on there is not meta.

Except that Deaths dance is an item.

Yeah, as I said, items, not built in like others.

No, I understood. And your point about Quinn honestly has more to do with Quinn being broken garbage that stomps everything. If your marker for champion is 'they need to be able to stand up against Quinn in lane', well then half of all melee in top lane is just hot garbage.

People can beat Quinn and she's not OP, just troublesome.

We already covered this. You can't just look at a winrate as the only evidance of balance. When Azir was released, he was absolutely fucking broken, one of the most op champions since like Xin Zhao, but he didn't even break 50%. The reason for this is that Riven is a bit of a more difficult champion, and she's also a VERY popular one. It's like vayne, for example, even during metas where vayne has been very good, she's had a subpar winrate because of scrubs and newbies wanting to go Gosu with her. It's the same thing with Riven.

Except you're wrong. Riven generally consists of only her mains, EXCEPT when she's overpowered. Riven being at a 50% win rate when mostly her mains are playing her is fine.

And Finally, what is it that allows her to stack Conq so quickly? It's the fact that she can spam her abilities on you without any real drawback for her. Specifically in the late game, it's her ability to spam Q to get on top of you, and then spam it again to damage you. Riven's E has always been a complete cancer ability

Um, none of what you said is correct. I don't think you know how Riven works. In the span of her combo she will do 3-6 auto attacks inbetween her qs and w. This means she stacks it before 3rd q on an all in. Removing auto attacks from stacking it would balance this, or lowering the damage per stack, or adding more stacks but keeping the same total damage.

PrismalDawnApr 16, 20191 votes

Keep passive.

Q - Cooldown now starts at the end of the final cast

W- Make it a slow or at least a skill shot.

E- Scales with AP.

Wow was that so hard Riot

8Belthazor8Apr 16, 20193 votes

{quoted}

Keep passive.

Q - Cooldown now starts at the end of the final cast

W- Make it a slow or at least a skill shot.

E- Scales with AP.

Wow was that so hard Riot

Seems it is harder than you think because your suggestion is equal to "delete Riven from the game".

LordGeovanniApr 16, 20191 votes

here is a counter rivens's q animations now have to completely play out

passive only 1 charge charge cant crit and ^1. 15% - 30% bonus physical damage

Q - Cooldown now starts at the end of the final cast

W- 18-13 second cooldown and stuns for 0.4 seconds

E- 75- 145 strength shield with a 65% bonus ad ratio 13- 8.5 cooldown

R - transforms for 6 seconds with no increased range on abilities . same damage but scaling from 0-130% increased damage. 160/ 125/ 95 cooldown. ^2. riven loses bonus ad on ult cast

^1 or ^2. mandatory choice

Cinderhulk RivenApr 16, 20191 votes

Riven is

Only strong on NA.
A good barometer of the meta, she is rarely changed. If she's OP right now, it's not her kit that's the issue. She normally hovers around a 45-47% WR in plat+. Nerfing her would take away this barometer by removing one of the bar-setting champions from their carefully placed position.
One of the best designs in the game, and certainly a player-base favourite. Changing her kit would take away one of the first real skill cap based designs to show up in the game, and fundamentally change what makes her such an appealing pick to the people who play her.
Divisive. People who don't like Riven tend to complain pretty loudly because a well played Riven can be unusually oppressive for a midgame carry type champion, and it feels pretty bad to be visibly styled on by someone who has learned her capabilities. Losing never feels good, though, and Riven's not unique here, she's just a good example.

Honestly, and yeah I say this as a Riven player, I feel like changing her would be a mistake. She's a good barometer of game health and the meta, and she is never the problem, even when she's a problem, she becomes strong or weak as the meta changes. Right now no one builds much defence, and tanks are just out, so Riven's kind of being allowed to do the thing that she wants: run around bursting squishies without much CC to stop her. This is her ideal situation, and she's still not on the very top. When that inevitably shifts again, I guarantee we'll see her return to a mid level pick mostly chosen by her fanbase and mains.