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I think Riven needs some minor kit adjusments

yuuum chan·4/16/2019, 4:57:40 AM·1 votes·1,894 views

I want to clarify that I don't think Rivens kit is broken or op, like some people seem to imply. However, I do think that some parts of her kit need tweaking, because right now there are some areas that I find to be unfun in certain ways. These are mainly centered around the spamability of her spells. Now, I realize that that is where ALL her power comes from, as none of her spells are particuarly great by themselves, and also where her skill expression lies. But, as a counter to that, I find that her spells are almost so spamable that riven players are not really punished for using their spells like mad, even when it's just for no real purpose.

The main reason for this is that cooldown reduction is easier than ever to get, and get very early. You can easily have 45% cdr by level 10 even on a normal, non-snowball game, which is a fact a champion like Riven can absolutely abuse, and I think therefore should be fixed accordingly, without necessarily nerfing her to the ground.

There are a few main points I have that are more suggestions than anything, and Idk if we should introduce all of them, some of them or maybe none of them. Maybe I'm just an idiot.

My first suggestion is concerning her q. Right now, her q is easy damage, quick gap closer, quckier map movement and general mobility. I think this is too much for such a basic ability that is easy to use and, most importantly, has such a low cooldown. I don't think the ability being able to do all these things is bad in of itself, I think it's a problem that it's able to do all of them without any thought to them, so to speak. So my proposal would be this:

Increase it's cooldown at all levels. BUT, in return, give it an effect that reduces it's cooldown by an amount when it hits a minion that amounts to a bit longer than what it's currently at, and more when it hits an enemy champion so that it's cooldown ends up equal to what it is now (up to a max, so that it doesn't like reset instantly on a massive minion wave or something). Doing this wouldn't nerf it's damage in combat what so ever, since it's most likely will a champion, but it will nerf it's the ability to travel the map quickly, as well as gap close. This way, Riven can't just infinitely spam her q to gap close to pretty much any ranged champion without any chance of kiting, and neither can she use it to dodge abilities quite as much. And, if she does decide to use it that way, she'll have to CHOOSE to do that over choosing to use it for damage, which is something that tests her skill.

Secondly would be to reduce the duration of her E to one second, but in turn increase it's power. Right now, at level 5, with 45% cdr, it almost has a 3 sec cooldown, with a 1.5-second duration, meaning that you only actually have 1.5 seconds to damage her. That is, quite frankly, insane, considering that it's purpose is not to be used for long term survival, but to block super important, big abilities, like Garen's R, och or Jhin's fourth bullet. Right now, it's not being used for that. Right now, it's pretty much just spammed on cooldown to constantly block damage. It's not really a fun thing to play against, as it's almost impossible to get in damage, and the riven player isn't really punished for making a mistake since it's such a short window of opportunity.

To mend this problem, simply reduce it's duration, to 1 second, or maybe even 0.5 seconds. But, in turn, increase it's power massively. It should be used to block big spells, and if a riven player does that, she should be rewarded by blocking that entire spell. If she fails, she should be punished by a long down time. If you think this is too drastic a nerf, then perhaps we could add another effect where if her shield blocks a certain amount of damage, it's cooldown is reduced. So, let's say she uses it too block a big garen ulti, shielding 600 damage. Blocking that high amount of damage is the shields purpose, so not only is she rewarded with blocking all the damage, but the shields cooldown is reduced by 2 seconds, reducing it to a 1 sec cooldown, again making it comparable to her current cooldown.

Tl;Dr; I think right now, Rivens short cooldowns allow her to get away with gameplay that she shouldn't be able too, as well as make it very unfun for the opponnets playing against her, now that cdr is so easy to get. I think modifying her abilities to reward aggressive gameplay but punish her for using her abilities nilly-willy or incorrectly should punish her more.

13 Comments

5050BS4/16/2019, 5:27:35 AM2 votes

Yep like fixing the animation cancellation bugs

8Belthazor84/16/2019, 8:06:24 AM2 votes

Except for that little hp regen increase, Riven did not get any buffs since she was barely playable, an underdog against most of the champions on toplane. Even now she is in hard struggle aganst numerous champions. She is op yes, but not that kind of op which has no counterplay so it breaks the game. There are a lot of counterpicks and counterplays against Riven. If they nerf Riven now it will become a double nerf whenever Riot decides to change the runes and items again. I think we can all agree that Conqueror is not healthy in its current form. It would be fine if they just limited the stacks with a timelimit. Since they refuse to do that for some reason I think it needs an other rework. I'd like to see a healthy new Conqueror first then nerf Riven if she is still obsessive.

Her mobility is a compensation for having very bad base stats compared to other top laners. Messing with it would destroy Riven completely. Right now I think a decrease in AD ratio would be fine.

VoraciousX4/16/2019, 5:33:45 AM1 votes

Disagree, Riven gets 40 or 45%, always has and always will, that's WHY her spells are so spammable, and it's the only way she's allowed to survive. Riven is strong right now because of Conqueror and Spear of Shojin, those are literally the only reasons. She can stack Conqueror extremely well. That gives her a much stronger early game. Sure, with Spear of Shojin, an item that literally resets cooldowns on auto attacks, she's much more spammable. That item doesn't need to exist. Once that and Conqueror are solved, she'll be fine and much less "spammy to where she can use abilities without worrying".

Riven is ALL ABOUT CDR. You can't do anything worthy of damage without it, once you get it, you become a lot stronger. The first suggestion is terrible, and I'll explain why. Riven cannot outrun Tryndamere, Riven can SOMEWHAT outrun Fiora, Riven can SOMEWHAT outrun Irelia, Riven cannot outrun Gnar once he has frozen mallet, Riven can sometimes outrun Tahm Kench, depending on if he hits Q, Riven can sometimes outrun Trundle, depending on pillar placement, Riven cannot outrun Wukong, and Riven cannot outrun Yasuo. Conversely, Riven cannot engage on ANY ADC without flash. increasing these cooldowns will make her too weak for the sake of nerfing her instead of the real problem. Let's also mention that CDR isn't any easier to get for Riven now than before. Spear of Shojin is 3400 gold to get 20% CDR, Black Cleaver is 3000. She's not likely to buy both, and if she did that'd be a lot of gold considering Death's Dance is also 3500 gold and she'd be wasting CDR unless she took transcendence, which she doesn't normally take.

E duration nerf: Quinn is a BIG reason I can think of not to do this. You need your E to fake out an all in on her, whereas she E's you back, and you shield the damage, and back off, then go back in when your E is off cooldown and hers isn't. Another reason is that her E is not meant to just "block big spells", it's meant as a versatile ability, and most often is used to engage because you're not wasting damage when you engage with E, or E>flash>W. Imagine you E flash W with your change, this would mean she's overlapping her shield with CC, and no longer shields any damage when engaging like this. This also means it's harder for her TO engage because a lot of the time you need E + flash to close the gap to do this. Also Riven wouldn't be likely to ever block a Garen ult with her shield unless she was already low and he just ran at her to ult her. A lot of the time in Garen vs Riven you're gonna E into his Q, and fight him in his E, because that's the only way you win. If you don't E his Q, then he gets to silence you and kill you before you can shield his ult.

My suggestions? Make Conqueror not able to stack through auto attacks. This would lower some of Riven's conqueror stacking, putting her in a less overbearing spot, and also remove Spear of Shojin. This item doesn't need to exist in the first place.

PrismalDawn4/16/2019, 5:38:47 AM1 votes

Keep passive.

Q - Cooldown now starts at the end of the final cast

W- Make it a slow or at least a skill shot.

E- Scales with AP.

Wow was that so hard Riot

Cinderhulk Riven4/16/2019, 2:36:15 PM1 votes

Riven is

  1. Only strong on NA.

  2. A good barometer of the meta, she is rarely changed. If she's OP right now, it's not her kit that's the issue. She normally hovers around a 45-47% WR in plat+. Nerfing her would take away this barometer by removing one of the bar-setting champions from their carefully placed position.

  3. One of the best designs in the game, and certainly a player-base favourite. Changing her kit would take away one of the first real skill cap based designs to show up in the game, and fundamentally change what makes her such an appealing pick to the people who play her.

  4. Divisive. People who don't like Riven tend to complain pretty loudly because a well played Riven can be unusually oppressive for a midgame carry type champion, and it feels pretty bad to be visibly styled on by someone who has learned her capabilities. Losing never feels good, though, and Riven's not unique here, she's just a good example.

Honestly, and yeah I say this as a Riven player, I feel like changing her would be a mistake. She's a good barometer of game health and the meta, and she is never the problem, even when she's a problem, she becomes strong or weak as the meta changes. Right now no one builds much defence, and tanks are just out, so Riven's kind of being allowed to do the thing that she wants: run around bursting squishies without much CC to stop her. This is her ideal situation, and she's still not on the very top. When that inevitably shifts again, I guarantee we'll see her return to a mid level pick mostly chosen by her fanbase and mains.