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Ryze Balance Discussion

MetaSire·10/24/2014, 6:13:35 PM·22 votes·2,267 views

Currently, Ryze is receiving a damage reduction on his Q in the PBE. I don't want to argue this change; this is probably healthy to stop him from bullying lane as hard, since he's supposed to be a late-game scaler. Instead, I want to suggest another viewpoint for changing his counterplay beyond "take less damage".

A solution against Ryze is usually to have the jungler gank or camp his lane. His only self-peel is a single-target snare which does little to defend against ganks. However, after 6, it's even harder to gank him because his ultimate can give him easy movement speed to get to safety, which is often underrated.

The change I propose is: Make his ultimate last significantly shorter, but last longer for every spell he casts during it. This synergizes well with his kit and theme, which is the infamous "machine gun mage", and stops him from abusing his ultimate to reposition. It also addresses the fact that he catches people too easily with his ultimate; he cannot activate it early to catch up to you as easily as he currently can.

Numbers are highly debatable, but the scope of the change might be something like: DURATION: 3 / 4 / 5. Duration is increased by .5 seconds for every spell ryze casts.

It might even be reasonable to have the movement speed scale with each spell cast, so that: Ryze gains 50 movement speed for the duration. This movement speed is increased by 10 for each spell Ryze casts within the duration.

Let me know what you think.

34 Comments

JustMyBassCannon10/24/2014, 6:25:55 PM9 votes

That's a pretty reasonable rebalance idea. I'm normally rolling my eyes at all the Ryze threads that show up, but you outlined exactly what you see as a problem, and how to fix it.

Making his chase/escape tool less powerful if he uses it for just that, but more powerful if he's using the AoE/Spell Vamp part for combat. I'd probably suggest making the base duration a flat amount, and then the rank-up bonus would be increasing the duration gained per spell cast (i.e. 4 seconds, gain 0.5/0.75/1 second per spell cast). If he stays in a fight, he might get a 10+ second ultimate duration, but the best he can hope from Ult, Root, Run away is 5 seconds.

Drunk Rummate10/24/2014, 6:16:40 PM5 votes

I think he just does too much damage for being such a tanky champion. I'm fine with the ult as it is since Ryze has pretty poor mobility and is often considered useless unless his flash is up. I just think his AOE output is a little ridiculous considering he does it while building a RoA and Frozen Heart with a massive Seraphs shield on top of that.

Either nerf his damage or nerf his survivability in my perspective.

BlazingSalvo10/24/2014, 8:14:22 PM3 votes

This is a great idea. It gives a bit of interaction and counterplay in an otherwise binary kit. It rewards aggression and kiting and punishes poor cooldown management - thus actually making Ryze take a marginal amount of skill to play.

I like it.

Kuroi8610/24/2014, 9:18:29 PM2 votes

I can dig it.

Konidias10/24/2014, 6:54:23 PM2 votes

I just feel like Ryze does too much damage when all you have to do is spam every skill until the target dies.

There is zero skill involved with Ryze... Some champions have boomerang skill shots, or curved shots, or shots you at least have to aim... They have skills where you have to wait for timers, use in a proper sequence, etc.

Ryze is literally "spam every skill nonstop to get faster cooldowns and all the skills just auto target and damage/stun the enemy"

Seriously.... look at his skills:

Arcane Mastery - Use a skill, reduce cooldown of ALL other skills by 1 second

Overload - Reduced cooldown passive, and a*** targeted active*** that deals magic damage

Rune Prison -*** Targeted active*** that roots an enemy briefly and deals magic damage

Spell Flux - Targeted active that bounces an orb around dealing magic damage to enemies

Desperate Power - Huge steroid buff

Where is the skill? You can literally just stand there and click an enemy and mash QWER.

His kit needs reworked. Just decreasing damage on his Q seems like a band-aid.

Champion Skin10/24/2014, 7:50:26 PM2 votes

If you don't want Ryze to escape with his Ult you could always make it like Voli Q or Vayne passive... gives more movement speed while running towards enemy champions and then reduce the base movement speed buff

Salidfingers10/25/2014, 6:01:04 AM2 votes

Only thing i know is Olaf, Yorick, and Darius eat ryze in lane.

I've been playing Yorick a lot more since ryze is popular and its been fun.

Espy Psyche10/25/2014, 6:08:24 PM2 votes

Removing Ryze's mana scaling makes him no longer Ryze. Ryze is the mana mage. He builds mana to increase his damage. Removing his mana scaling is not an option.

Additionally, has anyone noticed Ryze's complete inability to push a lane and take a tower? He struggles extremely hard compared to most top lanes (or mages for that matter) to push lanes and down towers. First, his only AoE is Spell Flux, which isn't good at wave clear unless he uses his ult because it doesn't hit hard enough until very late game. Second, his auto attacks do minimal damage to towers compared to mages or AD champions. Mages benefit from the AP scaling of auto attacks against towers, while AD champions have AD. Ryze has neither because of his mana scaling, and he doesn't get mana scaling against towers because Riot didn't implement the functionality.

How to beat Ryze? Push his lane with a ranged champion, keep river warded, and harass him. My suggestion is Jayce. Good wave clear, long range strong harass, the ability to get down and dirty if needed, speed boosts and a knockback to evade ganks, and a ranged auto attack. Gnar works for the same reason, except he uses slows and his leap to evade ganks instead of a knockback and speed boosts.

Old Man Teeto10/26/2014, 12:16:10 AM2 votes

Need more "bruisers" like Ryze.

Emphasis on Damage and Durability, minimal utility.

Bruisers trade safety of range for durability. Right now, that's not a fair trade since they either do crap damage or have crap survivability.

A little Peepo10/24/2014, 10:03:44 PM1 votes

This is the problem when you have a mage who is just as tanky as a tank. Id suggest to remove the mana scaling or remove the AP ratio from his abilities or removing the mana from FH (lets not touch FH xD) It feels like Elise, she built tank and still dealt damage and that is just silly. If you are a mage, you should be squishy, not an off tank. Hell maybe even lowering the mana ratio and increasing the AP to compensate for the changes. Its fine to build beefy as a mage but Ryze just goes over the line in terms of beefy-ness. I dont know, that's just my opinion and I'm probably wrong xD

Teridax6810/25/2014, 5:42:58 AM1 votes

The change you propose would be good at discouraging escapes, but would also significantly strengthen Ryze 's mid and late game, once he gets a bit of cooldown reduction, and both of those are phases of the game where he's already extremely strong and capable of sustaining himself for a massive amount in teamfights. While this may not entirely solve the issue of melee versus Ryze or melee versus ranged in top lane, item 1054 gets to block damage from single-target spells along with basic attacks on the PBE, which would significantly mitigate Ryze's early harass in particular and make for less oppressive early levels.

Skias10/26/2014, 11:29:21 AM1 votes

He needs to have his ability to click target all of his abilities removed. If he had skill shots you could actually dodge, he would have a margin of error. He's just training wheels ap carry.

AFK Push10/25/2014, 2:04:41 PM1 votes

Well the nerfs are already coming with his Q which you already mentioned, and that his passive is changing to he does extra damage = to his total mana. None of his spells have their own mana ratios anymore. I don't even know if he will even be relevant early game with these nerfs, or if he will be as good late game. I'm hoping this will at least give him a stronger late game, because I own the guy but I feel like he is getting gutted (which he kind of deserves).

PatMcGroyn10/25/2014, 4:42:09 PM1 votes

All the Ryze has to do is PvE in those lanes, though. I just farm, and if they try to force trades inside my creep wave, I QWEQ and walk away. Minion damage is so strong early, you're fighting an uphill battle trying to bully Ryze out.

OyddAWqJ5r10/24/2014, 8:50:26 PM1 votes

None of the PBE changes are final. They have been messing with all sorts of number changes on him on PBE. They're trying to figure out which number they can change that won't destroy him or his play pattern but remove some of his current excess power.

Joe Dredd10/24/2014, 9:16:36 PM1 votes

They should reduce his ult duration, his base ms, and his damage.

TheI3igDaddy10/24/2014, 8:11:46 PM1 votes

I'd say to make his Q a skillshot. His kit is outdated because all 3 attacks are targeted, ranged damage and his ult is a great steroid whose CD is also pretty damn low due to his passive.

I'd totally be okay for Ryze to be a faceroll champ if some of his skills (or at least just his Q) could be changed to skillshots. But the fact that he's faceroll, ranged, and all targeted damage makes him a nightmare to fight especially if he gets ahead since there's no way you can outplay his snare; he WILL hit you with it if he's in range, whether it's to prevent you from reaching him or escaping from him.