Doesn't it seem like there are alot of things missing in itemization?

InsaneSamurai·9/15/2016, 5:24:05 PM·40 votes·1,622 views

For one, barring a few specific champs, usually you just build the same thing depending on your role. Marksmen almost all end up with the same 4-5 items, tanks get to change it up sort of, but basically the enemy team comp chooses their build for them since there aren't enough options to have much variety apart from the core. If you want health the most you'll probably have the same build as any tank that wants health most, same goes for armor and MR. For mages it seems like either you're tanky or not, and unless you have a manaless champ you'll probably end up with the same items as any other mage that chooses the same route.

While pushing more diversity in the champs themselves, the items seem to be getting narrowed more and more. Some examples: Why are there no MR/Mana items anymore? Why is building mana the only way to get CDR on an armor item? If a tank needs attack speed and tankiness, why is wit's end the only option? Why is crit only on glass cannon items now? Some of these things seem very strange. Tanks/bruisers who need attack speed still need attack speed when they are not facing much magic damage, but Wit's End has been the only option for years. Some champs don't use mana, so when they need CDR and armor they are forced to buy two seperate items for it and that doesn't work out too well most of the time(if you need cdr, health, AND armor... well damn :) ). I think part of it is where they don't mind axing an item completely if it doesn't get much use. That doesn't seem like the right way to go at all. For example, what did Atma's actually hurt about the game? If it's only good on one or two champs but isn't broken, there isn't really a need to remove the option. It just shoehorns everyone into the same build over time when you remove the more obscure or less used options.

It gets very boring to feel like there's a static build for just about every role that you might swap out one item on occasionally. I know they have been pretty reluctant to add new items to the game but i think this is something that's getting more and more important the way the game is going. There should never only be one viable way to build a character. If that's the case, the items become more of a mandatory chore than a build choice.

48 Comments

the weeaboo9/15/2016, 6:52:20 PM7 votes

I've also noticed that there's a real lack of items. As an Jinx main it's sort of boring getting BF,Runaans, IE, Zerkers, Blood-thirster every game in that order.

Nyanza9/16/2016, 3:22:52 AM5 votes

RIP ionic spark.

Also Atman's replacement is supposedly item 3748

MLDzXnRRR9/15/2016, 5:27:14 PM5 votes

Because there are champions that break some item combinations,,, And is easier to balance stat sticks than active items.

ThePartyLeader9/15/2016, 9:38:26 PM2 votes

I don't know how to be nice on the internet but I'll try. For example If you want the most health you'll end up with the same build as a tank who wants health. Yeah... you both would be building the best health items..... you could have hundreds health of items and this would still happen.

Otherwise you seem to be asking things like. Why aren't there specific items for crit garen or tank adc kennen. This actually ruins champion build diversity as explained later in this post.

Otherwise Yes champions filling the same role against a similar enemy team comp will build similar items. You literally seem to be asking why must I bring a gun to a gun fight if I'm a gunner.

As metas become stagnant items become stagnant. There must be a best item for a scenario and scenarios reoccur often in metas. So as the previous statement says. If your a gunner in a situation there's a best gun for it. All fingers will pretty much make that same choice each only having a single niche they build different in.

It's like saying how come tp is used top lane all the time. Maybe if we create more summoner spells tp will get used less. When in reality there's nothing you can do about tp except dethrone it with a new better meta choice. All you do in the mean time is create clutter only 1% of the player base would use often referred to as noob traps and perhaps some niche counters all while actually decreasing single champions choices as the ones that do work well with the new choices will have to be balanced around it and therefore forced to take it.

Jaygo419/15/2016, 10:16:50 PM2 votes

However it seems that there's some items that overlap certain areas, creating nebulous item combinations that blend together and create monsters, like PD Frozen Mallet Yasuo, providing him w/ 60 crit and 12% reduced dmg coupled with 700 hp and a little AD to make that 60 count.

Death's Dance and Phantom Dancer combine to create a vicious damage reduction and damage dealing pair on Graves.

Stuff like that.

Spaceman5pff9/15/2016, 11:03:20 PM2 votes

I stopped reading at the Atmas bit. DrMundo item 1401 item 3065 item 3022 https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSg5E0nXTtrXgNSoQFLO1R63FVVKagRrLVpEvUhw58bJUhLgFqp

http://pm1.narvii.com/5800/73f254425cd3e1ae4457880ec6a11f13fd8e027f_hq.jpg

Given the current state of mundo's E and Frozen mallet + Strength of ages.... Atmas might not be welcome. Just generally the state of HP stacking autoattackers Current yasuo with this is a perfect example Yasuo item 3046 item 3022 item 3068 item 3091 item 3111 https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSg5E0nXTtrXgNSoQFLO1R63FVVKagRrLVpEvUhw58bJUhLgFqp This item would allow him to almost completely ignore the arpen nerf on his ult while still going tank.

TL;DR: Atmas and HP meta don't mix well.

agbudar9/16/2016, 3:28:59 AM1 votes

cant agree more and while we are on the subject why is riot so intend on removing aura's?

i feel that aura's should/are an integral part of the tank support. idk if aura's turn damage to me the tank for a portion if thats what needs to be done.

like something something void void energy cloak revert 50% of all damage done to your allies to you for the next 3 seconds.

Ace Access 9/16/2016, 7:21:06 AM1 votes

item 3139 offers AD and MR.... why is there no armor version of this ?

tooomine9/16/2016, 8:23:05 AM1 votes

Yes, dude. I agree with you. Like every time I get behind, and I want to build an armor/ad item. F'd in the A, bro. there is no Armor and AD item. I can get armor and health. I can get ad and MR. AD and health. liesteal, AS, AND AD, all on one item. but you wanna build some armor? fuck you.

A little Peepo9/16/2016, 8:40:26 AM1 votes

Problem with itemization is how other roles could benefit from it as well, essentially how adc build that dusk blade when it was meant for assassins not adc. I think that's why riot is very bland on itemization.

Poske9/16/2016, 9:42:45 AM1 votes

I am still waiting for ad/armor item

Riot is to scared to make one

Saianna9/16/2016, 1:51:09 PM1 votes

For as long as I remember there were always those "must have" items for each class.

To fix that Riot could add some passive like:

sing both top tier items (just example) IE + BT brings dimnishing returns. Both weapons decrease in power by 10%. Every next top tier weapon loses 10%

Or, if Riot doesn't want to act stingy to their belowed ADCs, then they could bring more items sharing the same passive, where more than 1/3 of power is located in passive and as passive don't stack, it'd be pointless buying other weapons :)

Lovelle9/16/2016, 2:01:31 PM1 votes

Old Atmas would be ridiculously strong on new Sion, yet he would still be one of the few that builds it. Yasuo would build it a lot too. Fratmas Yasuo too stronk.

Dengeden9/16/2016, 2:56:53 PM1 votes

There's always gonna be one way to build a character just like there's gonna be one optimal way to play them. Items offer stats that enforce that playstyle, that's why you see the same build so often. Diversity does happen but core items rarely change. New items wouldn't increase diversity any more than new champions do.

I think you can go every possible AP build on Taliyah (cept Lichbane and Gunblade) and do well but that's another story.

It's intentional that some classes have limited item options. It forces them to go for stats that are optimal for their role and not stifle the opposition using their gold advantage to gain superior stats in every possible way.

The reason why mana comes with CDR armor is to allow you to spam your abilities more with your newfound CDR. If you don't want the mana, buy kindlegem and/or CDR boots or get CDR runes. There's also the more general problem that tank items need to offer multiple things so they aren't forced to be "that damage source now does nothing to me" items.

Atma's was removed because they removed that 800g crit item that it built out of. They didn't want to have to balance an item that had been problematic in the past and was left in the gutter. Aaaand, we got Titanic Hydra as a replacement.

Backup4now9/16/2016, 7:54:43 PM1 votes

Imo, I think we need a Mejais for AD and HP. Maybe the AD one would give attack speed or movement speed as a bonus plus 100+ ad at max stacks, and the HP one would give some bonus damage reduction in addition to the ~950 health at max stacks. They could even have their own mini-item portion just like Dark Seal. I've even got some ideas for the names: Sword of the Occult for the AD mejais, and Leviathan for the HP mejais. Thoughts?

Mira Arya Enthe9/15/2016, 5:25:58 PM1 votes

There are meta strong picks, there always have been. But nothing is mandatory. There are core items, choice items, situational items, playstyle picks and more. Only ADCs and a couple other specific champions are extremely narrow.

Arakadia9/17/2016, 3:10:52 AM1 votes

I wish we had a self shield tank item, a AP sustain (not spellvamp necesarilly), and an AP armor item. I think an MR mana item doesn't exist bcuz it would be too good on ryze.

JhomasTefferson9/15/2016, 5:42:44 PM1 votes

Bring back zephyr and dfg! zephyr especially. That was a dank item. attack speed, ms, damage, and tenacity! and atmas impaler!

Evewynn9/15/2016, 9:07:29 PM1 votes

The problem with items is the same with champs; people will just use the strongest ones and leave the others in the dust. Just look at ohmwrecker, it would theoretically be great for teams who want to push towers but lack poke. But no one ever builds it, because there are just better alternatives.

Ryuyah9/16/2016, 1:03:38 AM1 votes

There were no Mana + MR items because that would mean Old Ryze could build tear, frozen heart, and the mana+mr item to deal shitloads of damage while being unkillable (sound familiar?)

rtbf761092719/16/2016, 1:23:56 AM1 votes

Even if there were 100's of items, each champion would usually boil down to the same core items every game.

I think it's a lot like trading card games. No matter how many cards there are and how close the tier 2 ones are to the tier 1, decks will all be tier 1 cards.

The only way to get "variety" is to make items situationally better at different times. But then it is still "x situation = y item" and the meta develops and every situation gets figured out

Is it near impossible to get truely unique situations and therefor unique itemization very often