Yasuo shield passive - Move to W?

inDJ·Oct 9, 2014·37 votes·3,801 views

So first things first, this isn't a complaint thread about the nerfs. I barely play Yasuo, but seeing him nerfed so hard does make my heart hurt a little - As far as Lolking is accurate, he's already got a sub-45% win rate above Gold.

So @... uh, whoever: has consideration been placed on moving Yasuo's shield passive to his W instead? This way he won't get his shield level 1, and he won't be as ridiculous at trading at level 1/2 as he is now. I get that his current health nerf was meant to hit his early game already, but a health nerf would stick with him through the entire game, where moving his shield passive would probably only hurt him level 1/2 - which in my (Silver league) experience is when he can trade the most efficiently.

EDIT: I would even argue that it makes sense thematically. Since the active blocks damage already, it follows that it would have a passive that also blocks damage. As if he passively had... say, a wall. Of wind.

EDIT 2: I'm saying that I think his power curve, not his overall power, is the problem.

Discuss?

44 Comments

DarthSpectrumOct 9, 201414 votes

Probably the best solution.

Given how Riot handled 4.18's Kha'Zix nerf however, I dread that in the end they will nerf his health nevertheless, as the balance team would go and say: "Well, everyone is putting a point in W now, so it must be OP!"

MakeABronziesDayOct 9, 20147 votes

Nerf yasuo to the ground. He has too many free stats.

JunkοOct 9, 20143 votes

Nerf Vladimir also, he gets hp for buying glass cannon AP and vice versa

Desmond LawOct 9, 20144 votes

I like this change. The infamous Yasuo level 1/2 cheeze will be unavaliable until he gets a point into wind wall, meaning he has to commit to defense if he wants defense.

I find it funny how some posters are moaning how that's gutting yasuo's lane phase, but honestly, you only lose out until lv 2/3, when lane phase is still lane phase. If you're feeding at lv 1-3, then it's not the champ, it's you.

JustMyBassCannonOct 10, 20141 votes

I like this change. The infamous Yasuo level 1/2 cheeze will be unavaliable until he gets a point into wind wall, meaning he has to commit to defense if he wants defense.

I find it funny how some posters are moaning how that's gutting yasuo's lane phase, but honestly, you only lose out until lv 2/3, when lane phase is still lane phase. If you're feeding at lv 1-3, then it's not the champ, it's you.

Doesn't that apply to Yasuo's opponent every bit as much?

Yasuo has taken several nerfs to his defense already. If you move his shield passive to his W, you're gutting his defense in the early laning phase. He has to give up on minion farm at level 1 to deal with a ranged attacker, never ever be in range of an opponent's gap closer before level 2, and/or never harass before level 3.

But then again, I can't expect a passive-as-fuck player to think of that, now can I?

inDJOct 10, 20141 votes

Calm down.

JustMyBassCannonOct 10, 20141 votes

Calm down.

Implying that I'm actually upset. Frustrated? Sure; not one person likes to consider outplaying Yasuo. I constantly hear about people losing as mana-based champions because he's manaless, meanwhile I regularly have no problems with Yasuo with my mana-based champs.

But I'm not upset. Just tired of people who don't think before talking about stupid shit.

MasticatingGrillOct 9, 20143 votes

If you put his passive on his W then he gets a new passive. This fixes what?

And if you're laning him with a champ that has no hope of popping it before the engage...wtf u doing. Or heck roll with Maokai or something funny that shuts down his dashes.

inDJOct 9, 20149 votes

But he has two passives. The crit passive will still be there to take up space.

AsdeftOct 9, 20141 votes

You clearly don't understand. You move his Resolve Passive to his W so he just has the double crit chance as a passive. Just makes him more cautious early or will make him start W; either one would be good at making him weak early.

MasticatingGrillOct 11, 20141 votes

You clearly don't understand. You move his Resolve Passive to his W so he just has the double crit chance as a passive. Just makes him more cautious early or will make him start W; either one would be good at making him weak early.

Yasuo is already pretty weak esp early. And the new change makes him even weaker early. Just don't lane against him with a champ that will feed, and everything's fine.

If his jg comes in, your jg should either come for doubles or PUSH wherever their jg isn't helping.

And putting his shield on the W, as an active or a passive?

As a passive it would be similar to the current innate passive, but I assume it scales off points so could be pushed for tankiness? As an active ability it would be miles weaker, and put even MORE risk investment into every W cast.

I cannot even agree that Yasuo needed this recent nerf considering how often he gets farmed, so eh.

AsdeftOct 12, 20141 votes

I think Yasuo is fine as he is at the moment, it is just what the op suggested. I think this would be a viable nerf to yasuo if they *really * need to do more.

LegendaryLemurOct 9, 20142 votes

Good idea. +1

JustMyBassCannonOct 9, 20142 votes

"Hey, I have an idea! Let's make it so Yasuo has absolutely no natural defenses! I'm sure making his laning phase absolute shit, even by comparsion to Master Yi and Tryndamere, is totally justifiable!"

Play an aggressive champion and upset his laning phase. Learn to deal with his patterns and tear him up. I'm saying this as the Brand main who regularly wrecks mid-lane Yasuo players; he's not that fucking hard to deal with.

Tapu FiniOct 9, 20143 votes

If I see a Yasuo in ranked, I just pop Anivia or Karma mid and melt him down. He really doesn't appreciate bursty champions, and this will only make it easier.

I think they're touching on the wrong place here though. He definitely needs a tradeoff for his crazy mid/late game, I just don't know that this is the right direction/

The5lackerOct 9, 20142 votes

The problem is then Yasuo has a resource bar whos only purpose is linked to a single basic ability.

That's pretty bad design and I think a smarter solution would be to make Flow an actual resource as opposed to a pitiful shield.

JunkοOct 9, 20141 votes

yeah and let Riven, Garen, Kat, Rumble, Rengar and Gnar have their resource free abilities

The5lackerOct 9, 20142 votes

How's that related to anything?

Oh, right, it isn't. Because the irrational hatred you people have for manaless champions is just that: Irrational. Manaless =/= OP. Mana =/= Good Design. It has to serve a purpose.

For example, lets say Yasuo got his Flow mechanic changed so that it amplifies his abilities similarly to Renekton's Fury (who's also manaless and not in your list). Full flow + Q = whirlwind. Full flow + W = knockback when the wall is spawned. Things like that.

JunkοOct 9, 20141 votes

When did i say i hate manaless champions? I love playing them, 99% of champions i play are manaless or use another resource. Why? Because they are simply better. The only mana champion that i play is Veigar, and that's because of his passive that along with Chalice eliminates all problems you have with mana.

The5lackerOct 9, 20141 votes

So explain to me why you brought them up?

Because it doesn't look to me like you have anything of value to say, because you keep talking, and nothing's being said on the actual topic at hand other than you going "I can't manage mana."

JunkοOct 9, 20141 votes

When you said "turn Flow into actual resource" i thought of turning it into mana or energy and the sort. That is a mistake on my part i admit.

LneacxOct 9, 20141 votes

Probably not: Yasuo desperately both a shield and his Q to survive lane. Having to pick only one at lvl 1 will probably result in a net nerf compared to 4.18 Yasuo, even if W-Shield Yasuo has 50 more health.

LegendaryLemurOct 9, 20146 votes

Oh i thought this was a thread about the nerfs not being enough... that's why i thought it was a good idea

LneacxOct 9, 20141 votes

uh. actually i never checked what the thread was about. oops.

If you want to nerf Yasuo, sure, that'd weaken his early lane.

inDJOct 9, 20141 votes

I'm not exaaaactly saying nerf him moar. I just think that'd ease up his power curve a little and give the balance team less of a headache with him. They could even give him the 50 health back if they want and, like you said, it'd still result in a net early-game nerf - just that he'll keep the 50 health for later in the game.

He* is* supposed to be a late-game nightmare, after all, and from what I understand the problem right now is that his early-game is too strong to justify his late-game power. Correct me if I'm wrong. All I'm saying is that moving the shield passive to W will address this, imo.

LeeDarkOct 9, 20141 votes

Considering how many Yasuo's used to take E first, before the nerf, and many who still do put a point in E first, you obviously do not need Q at level 1.

LneacxOct 9, 20142 votes

Good counterpoint. Could it be that taking Yasuo's E at 1 forces him to all-in? Since E's nerf, his early all-ins aren't as threatening anymore, so I think he'll have to rely on his Q and shield to survive. Also, even E-first Yasuo had his shield at 1. Can Yasuo survive with only one out of shield, Q, and E at 1?

LeeDarkOct 10, 20141 votes

I think the shield is as it needs to be. Yasuo would have a difficult time trading at all, and would lose most trades without it. The real trouble is the double crit. You take E at 1 for mobility and the fact that, even nerfed, it is better damage than Q if you stack it. You E a minion, E another to get close to your opponent, attack, E your opponent, attack, and E to get out. During that time, they trade back with their level 1 skill and autos. If Yasuo gets even one crit during that exchange, in many cases, his opponent just lost the lane.

Coincidentally, it would be much easier to tie the crit to a skill, so that he gets 20% more crit per point. This gives him his double crit late game, reduces the chance of a level 1 crit winning him the lane, keeps the shield intact so he can farm adequately, and reduces his early game power by maintaining the weaker crits without the double crit chance benefit.

Of course, instead, Riot just decided he needed less health for some reason. Health hasn't been a problem for me.

MasticatingGrillOct 9, 20141 votes

Brand main....you may as well be top Cho vs Nasus. The question is how many champs does he counter in early laning. And how many champs SHOULD he counter in early laning. The reduction cuts down his First Bloods and pre-six kills.

Yasuo now needs to sweat more and farm more. He's barely slower but the 10% HP nerf at lvl 1 increases his passive dependence. With the HP nerf I think his shield needs to remain with the passive. Further, his tiny speed nerf means more time spent walking for Flow.

Considering how bad he already did against various ranged mids and stun mids, Yasuo is going to be more Top and so deliciously squishy.

KnalxzOct 9, 20141 votes

i've been saying this for months now

-.-'

DaCushOct 9, 20141 votes

Just remove his shield. Problem resolved. Able to be poked down so has a weakness, but still has double crit chance and is an extremely mobile hypercarry with no cds

AlëkOct 9, 20141 votes

Just remove his shield. Problem resolved. Able to be poked down so has a weakness, but still has double crit chance and is an extremely mobile hypercarry with no cds

he'd die in most early game trades without that shield. They've already destroyed his health. this wouldn't make any sense.

DaCushOct 9, 20141 votes

I would rather them give back his health and take away the shield.

junglerboy16Oct 9, 20141 votes

I think his biggest issue with the shield is that even after the nerfs, it is still too strong in terms of the health it provides, it makes him have something no other assassin has: the ability to not be bursted by an equal level assassin. Aside from that, Yasuo is just strong because he can ult off of ANY displacement, not just knock ups (which I think it should be more specifically limited to).

JunkοOct 9, 20141 votes

First of all, Yasuo isn't an assassin, he a mADC

mADC Trynd has an ability to be immune to death, and a decent early game heal

mADC Yi is tanky as shit with his meditate, so if he can react in time, he will get scratched

mADC Fiora just ignores all dmg with ult, has a parry and strong early game regen

FredartOct 9, 20141 votes

Yasuo so under powered, easliy rapeable by any caster.

Skia AsteriOct 9, 20141 votes

It would give him a reason to level Windwall in lane against melee opponents. That would be nice for going against him as Poppy in top lane.

Remlap1223Oct 9, 20141 votes

I love Yasuo. He's fun to play and has an interesting lore. And it's making me cringe how much they're nerfing him, because they're nerfing the wrong spots, and by the time they actually hit the right ones, he's going to be Gnar tier. It's sad. All they really needed to do is lower his AA range and his movespeed. The problem isn't that Yasuo deals huge amounts of damage necessarily, but the fact YOU CAN'T OUTRUN HIM. That dash and his ludicrous attack range is a testament to that.

Flawless FetusOct 9, 20141 votes

I suggested this forever ago. At the time I thought it made sense. Yasuo has been so overnerfed, though, that I think this'd be a mistake now. He was weak before this last patch hit; now he's even weaker. I played Yasuo up to D2 while he was strong. He's been toned down /alot/, I'm pretty much afraid to pick him anymore due to fear of being a liability. lol.

inDJOct 10, 20141 votes

Yeah I think implementing it now* in addition to* all the current nerfs will be way too much, for sure. I just don't like that all the nerfs he's received recently hit him for the entire duration of the game, rather than just his problematic early game.

TheRainInSpainOct 9, 20141 votes

I think the intention was you take him bot with your support teammate. I mean, they did say that shield was counter ranged harass. And he is actually an ADC, just a melee ADC. People just took him top or mid because the idea of anything not a ranged ADC in that bot lane is absurd to 95% of the playerbase.

/BeginADCRant Even if you manage to get 80% winrate and Challenger without an ADC bot lane, even if you manage to change the meta, even if you get to Worlds without a ranged ADC in the bot lane ... People will hate you, people will spam report you, people will threaten you, people will drophack you, people will probably rob/hurt you in RL, and people will quit League by the thousands if you use anything other than a ranged ADC in that bot lane.

However, there is no set in stone tablets meta for any of the other four positions on a team. You can do anything you want as long as there is a ranged ADC in the bot lane. /EndADCRant

dialMARK4acti0nOct 9, 20141 votes

I main Yasuo and I approve this message.

Seriously, this change could potentially balance him and save him from being Olaf'd.

Solidair3Oct 9, 20141 votes

I HATE Yasuo.

That being said, the first few levels are integral to success in some match ups, and starting with W, or not having a shield at level one would be very detrimental to yasuo's ultimate success.