Boards›Gameplay

Whenever Riot comes out with a new champ I die a little inside

Crett·11/21/2016, 11:16:22 PM·27 votes·2,792 views

They're always really awesome designs, and usually have cool thematics in their kit and are all around just Art.

But there's always some FURSHLUGGINER PERCENT HEALTH DAMAGE IN THERE

That's not enough let's put some. TRuE damage in there too http://www.rotoscopers.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/tumblr_msh9xxH0pg1sg2u4ko1_400.gif Hoo Hoo Hoo

http://www.floobynooby.com/ICAN3211/TiggerBounceB.gif http://www.floobynooby.com/ICAN3211/TiggerBounceC.gif

It's like that except imagine that's Camille and she's shredding a tank.

I see % health damage become more and more common every time they rework a champ or add a new one. It's become homogenized. Commonplace. MANY champs have access to this damage type.

I get it! The damage type has a place in the game. It's no longer defining for a champ to have %health damage, it's just a common mechanic. I just. Don't like % health damage. I don't even feel like it's entirely necessary in general.

I respect the designers. I just feel like it's popping up in quite a few more places than it should be, and I personally hope there's some kind of Percent Health Damage Pass Update someday that goes through the champions and revises and replaces a lot of these mechanics where they aren't necessary, but that assumes that they even perceive it as an issue, which I just have no idea one way or another whether they do.

LONG SIGHH...

Disclaimer: I don't REALLY have an argument here. This is just me crying and yakking because I don't like this mechanic at all, or the dynamic it creates between champs that have it and tanks, who often have little mobility or escapes.

But there are pros and cons to the mechanic and in some places it's the best fit. I hope... that you understand my frustration, even if you don't agree...

38 Comments

Adanim11/22/2016, 12:32:24 AM11 votes

They do it to prevent another explosion of "Assassins building defense and still killing people in less than one spell rotation". They are also trying to prevent the chaos that was January-March of Season 5, where the meta was 3 tanks, a utility mid, and a carry. It's to make playing tanks a tactical choice rather than having it be the same every game.

That issue that comes up is that tanks become utterly useless when there is too much %hp/true damage running around, and it isn't helping that they keep adding these mechanics into more and more kits. If they took a break from that for a while we wouldn't have any drawbacks.

Marshbouy11/22/2016, 3:04:46 AM5 votes

% Hp damage is good for not oneshotting an squishy. If a champions role is to shred a tank, then you can either -give it free armor pen (terrible idea) -give it high damage (terrible idea, one shots squishies too and becomes too difficult to balance) -give it % hp damage which will be more effective against tanks, it's prime target.

Which sounds like the best idea?

JerulEon11/22/2016, 2:25:28 AM4 votes

Yeah I agree. It's why choosing tank just feels awful to me. Like I get blown up in the same amount of time as a tank would versus a fighter or juggernaut but I deal little damage. I'm not making an argument either, it's just a sentiment. Maybe it's a tank itemization issue.

Teridax6811/22/2016, 2:02:58 AM2 votes

I personally don't have that much of an issue with true or percent health damage on champions, even if I question why there's some of it on Camille, a Diver who looks like she has some pretty good target selection. My issue is with resistance penetration/reduction and max health damage on items: if you give one specific champion true damage or armor penetration/reduction, you're saying that champion gets to ignore some of their targets' resistances, and when you give a champion max health damage, you're saying that champion gets to ignore some of their targets' health. Put those effects on items, and you're basically saying everyone gets to ignore some resistances and health, which not only defeats the purpose of counters to damage, but also forces a situation where either tanky items need inflated stats to still be valuable late-game, or those anti-tank items need to be too weak to be good at their job, which is currently the issue with Blade of the Ruined King.

On specific champions, true/max health damage has some usefulness in that it somewhat equalizes kill thresholds for both squishy and tanky targets: if a champion is meant to be an effective kill threat against any enemy within restricted time windows, giving them nothing but flat physical or magic damage would either force them to be balanced around killing squishies, in which case their damage would be too weak against tanks, or force them to be balanced around killing tanks, which would cause them to kill squishies far too quickly. Fiora has max health true damage, for example, because she's meant to out-duel anyone, and as a skirmisher she's intended to be a good kill threat against any opponent, even if she isn't intended to play like her pre-rework self and kill squishies in only a couple of seconds. I'd actually be a lot happier with giving more champions true and/or max health damage if it meant taking true/max health damage and resistance pen/reduction out of items.

If there's one thing that peeves me about Camille's damage types, it's her on-hit magic damage on her ult. The damage already scales with current health, but if it's meant to ignore armor, it would be better if it dealt a lesser amount of true damage. If it's not meant to ignore resists at all, it should be a larger amount of physical damage. Either way, magic damage isn't a good fit, and generally I don't think it really makes sense for a champion to have magic, physical and true damage on their kits at the same time, not counting base damage from autoattacks. There probably does need to be a pass for damage types, scaling, etc., and I hope counters to resists and health end up getting shifted to champions exclusively, and out of items; perhaps those counters should also be used more sparingly, so that champions with true damage get recognized as picks who do exceptionally well against resistance stacking, and champions with max health damage get recognized as top-tier health-shredders. Fighters and marksmen are both DPS-based, and as such should naturally be well-equipped to deal with tanks, so anti-tank damage on top should only be added to their kits for a good reason.

bad arcade kitty11/22/2016, 4:50:31 AM2 votes

camille is ridic she has everything - mobility, stuns, 90% (!) slows, a huge built-in self-healing, % damage, true damage imo they should fire its creator

FourVsFive11/21/2016, 11:18:57 PM2 votes

I just wish they would stop making new champs, and rework old unused champs. Kinda a turn off for a game very overwhelming for new players to have to memorizes 130+ champs how they work and interact in game.

Outdated11/21/2016, 11:25:58 PM2 votes

Stopped reading at the part.

hhaavviikk11/22/2016, 6:26:53 AM2 votes

3 years back riot said ''we didn't know how to make champions viable in the current meta so we give them health% damage'' perhaps that's still the case who knows

Trylobyte11/22/2016, 6:39:13 PM1 votes

% health damage became more and more common following the death of resistance-based tanking. Remember the days a tank with 2000 HP at the end game could still be nearly indestructible? I do. But with the gradual progression of the game resists became less meaningful with the rise of % resist pen, and this was combined with the removal of several MR-granting items and the pinnacle of high-damage physical bruisers like Jarvan, Irelia, Darius, and Riven. Suddenly the best way for a tank to protect themselves became 'Ignore resists, stack as much HP as possible.' And tanks had it easy because Armor and Health were and are typically found on the same items, so even if the armor didn't do a whole lot it still helped. Thus came the supertanks with their massive amounts of health and armor. % health damage was made to partially counter this tendency. Since the massive penetration still hasn't really gone anywhere (Hi Yasuo) building a ton of HP is still the best option for tanks and so % health damage is still with us.

midnight oil2411/22/2016, 3:08:45 AM1 votes

I agree that it needs to be toned down a little. It works with, say, elise, because her kit is all about picking the right form for the job. Blast them down in human form with %health damage, then beat them down into the dirt in spider form. But it doesn't need to be on everything.

Cryo0011/22/2016, 3:15:23 AM1 votes

I mean....I'm fine with %HP stuff if its magical or physical, because then you can at least build defenses against it. %HP true damage on the other hand. Also, I believe her W converts the damage to partial true damage, not total.

ElegantDoge11/22/2016, 11:53:11 AM1 votes

I couldn't care less about % health damage really.As long as it's not too strong or broken. I care more about overloaded kits like Yasuo and Kalista who are stray up toxic to play against. Heck,even if i hate Vayne right now in her current state,i'd prefer to play against/with Yasuo or Kalista.

TeCoolMage11/22/2016, 1:38:08 PM1 votes

Can't really find it added into the assassin reworks, Ivern, Ekko, bard, majority of Mage reworks if not all (brand and Malzahar already had %hp), Etc

Yorick and poppy are he few that come to mind

iTzYaBoyJohnCena11/22/2016, 6:23:11 PM1 votes

I like it because it gives people an actuall chance to kill a tank/bruiser.