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Quick Go-To Guide For Why Rengar Is Too Strong. Simple And Balanced Fix.

DomoSapienXD··3 votes·1,188 views

First off, I need to nail down some points here:

    • There are very few champions that are basically unstoppable late game unless the player controlling the champion makes a mistake himself which 9 times out of 10, is due to cockiness. Even then, a few cocky mistakes won't interrupt their Tier 1 Shitstompiness unless it's done persistently, with intent, and in careless disregard.
    • There is a difference between a gimmick and cheese. Cheese, when defined in the context of League of Legends, is a strategy so uncanny, unexpected, and frankly, ludicrously simple that it typically works via the element of surprise and can most often be compromised with a few easy pre-meditated and cautionary steps. IE: Midlane warding and camping at the enemy Jungler's Red Buff after they went to Blue, wolves, then wraiths to snag a kill on the half-HP Jungler. Now a gimmick, on the other hand and once again in the context of League of Legends, is a technical quirk that can easily be abused with little to no counter play. And counter play, in this right, is required to be something that can be native to anyone despite the champion they play. A countering champion is known as a counterpick. For this case, lets just use Azir vs Rengar as our case in point. And now back to my original point; *an example of a gimmick could be something like Draven's old passive or in this case, Rengar's passive. *

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Now I will go ahead and right out say that I just lost a game to a Rengar top which is why I'm making this post. Feel free to look up my history and criticize w/e you want about my build or even my champion pick. I'm no top laner by any stretch. I'm using the pre-season to practice because I desperately need to learn. That point aside, regardless of my varied expertise, its still easy to spot a broken mechanic. I'm sorry. That's a little cruel. We'll refer to the appropriate term: gimmick.

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Let us head to Top Lane.

Now what makes Rengar's Passive a gimmick>cheese and therefore not susceptible to counter play? Now typically, a passive like this wouldn't be so bad were it not the fact that his kit boosts his passive's capabilities practically 10-fold. To answer our own question, lets look at some potential candidates for counter play. We'll go straight for the most popular one: warding. Unfortunately, seeing him or not doesn't necessarily make a difference because his passive isn't so gimmicky because it has a surprise factor to it(which it doesn't). Its that its an impending factor regardless of this counter measure. So, warded bush or not, seeing him merely walk into that bush already applies that pressure. Let's try another. How about exhaust? Well, for the next few moments, he'll struggle to get back into his bush and will most likely suffer a few hits. But once he hits that bush, it's pretty much free game for Rengar. There are a few things he can do:

    • He can hop away.
    • He can stall ridiculously effectively.
    • He can turn around, heal, and flail at you in a flurry of low CD abilities that apply all damage, sustainability, and CC.

Now why doesn't this classify as counter play? Well mainly because it's not something every player can do. It's not a native action someone can take. It relies on a specified pick of something. Exhaust isn't counter play to AD, AS, or MS the same way that Ignite isn't counter play to someone's shield. If it requires a decision made outside of the game, it isn't counter play. An excellent and my personal favorite example of counter play is building a Randuin's against an ADC who has a Runaan's Hurricane. Despite their lack of focus on you; if you're properly clumped with your team, they'll suffer the consequence of the slow anyway. However, the bigger reason why it's not counter play is because Rengar can immediately do what he was doing before and almost immediately come back from his deficit. In the mean time, you're waiting a good long while until that exhaust is up again.

Lets try one more. How about Banshee's veil? Surely counter play correct? Wrong. Not in the case versus Rengar's passive. It's actually 100% detrimental against a Rengar as it's a waste of space. Why? His leap procs Banshee's Veil even though the leap itself does no damage. It just allows him to leap and 'extends' his attack range. So, purchasing a Banshee's Veil against a hop-happy Rengar will do nothing.

So I'm sure at this point, someone might be asking, "Well, since it does no damage, what's the problem then?" It creates a persistent and unwavering pressure. As I said earlier, it's an impending action. The same principle can be found in Orianna's old ball from 2-3 years ago. Back then, her Q had ridiculously long range; basically from turret to just past middle-of-lane. This paired with an untouchable low mana cost surmounted to pretty much 100% zoning. So despite your plans in lane, you always knew that ball would follow you to zone you.

Despite ALL OF THIS, the biggest issue with his passive is that its a massive safety blanket. I was actually surprised to see that Rengar doesn't classify as a fighter first because as Riot defined Assassin's 2 years back, they're extremely powerful but easily punished. That's not the case with Rengar. He can easily jump away or even over you to farm safely and even if you manage to do damage to him and slow him down, and lets use me and my Darius from last game as an example, he has 2 very effective options:

    • He can run away and use his no-cost heal.
    • He can turn with one hell of a nasty bite with his low CD and no-cost abilities that also basically get an additional reward for spamming them.

So, with all that under the bridge, I have a fairly simple and VERY balanced solution. In English, give him exhaustion from bounding so many times within a time frame. In numbers, give him a 3x stacking debuff on his bound if he uses it 3 consecutive times within 10-15 seconds. So basically, one debuff stack if he uses the ability within 5 second windows of each other. The debuff will reduce his bounding range by 20% per stack for a maximum of 60% range reduction. I'd personally like the debuff to be called "Hamstring". That's just me though. :P

20% on paper seems astronomically high, however, you may change your mind when you learn that Rengar can, indeed, jump more than half the width of top(and therefore bot lane as well) from the Top/Bottom middle lane bush. There is one last tweak I'd like to make to prevent instant-debuff stacking in clustered team fights around bushes if this fix was implemented. For the good of all that is Phreak-like, take away Rengar's ability to hop within the same brush he's standing in. Brush to brush is fine. But bounding in the same brush is ridiculous. Doing this with this new fix would prevent immediate Hamstring Exhaustion if a team fight so happened to take place within a bush.

Overall, I think that if Rengar is truly going to be relayed as an Assassin, he needs to be treated like it as well. This change will force the player to make 2 types of decisions. The first decision being whether the player wants to use his bounds for safe farming which will hinder his ability to appropriately retaliate or go on the offensive with his leap. The second decision being when the player wants to commit to stalking and assassinating someone because using the Ult leap will already give him a stack of Hamstring. The player better be confident that he can kill his prey or have a contingency plan if he can't. This is the full-commitment decision as it won't give him an avenue to effortlessly chase someone through a jungle and it won't give him the guaranteed security of escape.

Thanks for the read.

TL;DR: Gameplay Change -Passive:

    • While in brush or in stealth, Rengar gains bonus attack range and his attacks cause him to leap at the targets location at the cast. This bonus lasts for 0.5 second upon exiting brush or stealth. Unseen Predator will happen regardless of whether or not his target has sight of him.
    • Rengar's leaps apply stress to his hamstrings for 5 seconds per leap causing him to lose 20/40/60 % of his leap range. Rengar can fully stress his hamstrings at 3 stacks. The effect will reset at any level of stress if he rests for 5 seconds before another leap.

-Fix: Rengar can no longer leap to a location in the same brush he's standing in.

7 Comments

Worgslarg4 votes

Unnecessary nerf to me. Rengar is fine. If he goes in on a target, he is easily cc'd and can be stopped easily.

Splashboy4 votes

No. His range indicator already got severely nerfed. Leave him the F alone

Player of Games1 votes

This is a pretty good read, well written. I'm afraid that Rengar's problem may or may not be the ability to brush-stalk, whilst outputting massive burst come mid-late game. While I think the idea is well suited, it still won't necessarily hinder the issues Rengar has, it'd just make him be more precautious about when or when not to engage, even then, once he's built up a few items there's still the inevitability of getting 100-0'd if you aren't playing right, and a passive CD won't prevent that.

DomoSapienXD1 votes

I agree and I don't believe there's anything wrong with being 100-0'd late game especially if they deserved it and worked hard for it. However, the safety blanket his passive provides him early game is just too much.

As I said, I'm not a very good top laner by any stretch of the imagination and it's primarily because I don't really know how game play works up there. However, mechanically, I can keep up to snuff mechanically. The example being me playing Darius. Rengar and I were at equal items. He had a two kill lead on me but I was farming better. We both had a brutalizer but all he had on top of that was his bonetooth necklace with 2 stacks. I had a Chain vest. So at this point, I had 50 armor more than him(Dude basically had no base armor which is odd... not sure if that's a common top laner thing). And despite me nailing combos with Darius, and I mean the full fledged combo of Auto-E-W-Auto-Q-Auto and despite him also not retaliating, he was able to come back in a matter of roughly 20 seconds by retreating back to the bush. I wouldn't consider myself an aggressive player but I could usually land that combo 4-5 times in 4 minute increments during laning phase and the guy didn't falter.

What got him to his late game so nicely was that he started roaming when he saw he couldn't do anything to me and my tower. I pushed my lane for 3 towers as I obviously couldn't follow the guy around the map. But basically, his safety blanket for the first 15 minutes pretty much nullified any attempt to widdle him down. By 25 minutes, he was 100-0'ing basically everyone which is fine. I mean he got to that point and anyone who gets there deserves to do what they do. But the problem came in with how easily he got there. Despite my consistent harass, I couldn't get him down or wary enough to where he wouldn't come back in.

The game lasted 36 minutes and while my team was consistently attempting to farm up and take objectives, there was practically zero hope. The ONLY time we killed him after the 20 minute mark was when he jumped on all of us at the same time by himself in our own base. And that goes again to my previous state of failure by cockiness. We had a 50 second timer to push and unfortunately we learned another after effect of him shit stomping the whole map; despite having 5 against their 4 pushing down mid lane, we were flatly outgunned by his team who had pretty much rode his wave of excellence and farmed while he roamed the map. And after our wipe, they pushed to win.

In all, Rengar's ridiculous road into late game forced us to focus him. Proof is in the pudding that the only time we killed him was when he 1v5 dove. And because of that, because we had to be so wary, it was just a domino-effect for our team because we couldn't focus turning down his other teammates.

Overall, I'm not complaining. He won fair and square and as I said before, anyone who gets to that point deserves it. However, he got there way too easily. Despite attempted counter measures from my team, his 2/0 - 43 CS 'lead' (if you can even call it that) by 10 minutes completely spiraled him out of control.

Again, being new to top lane, I didn't know what to do really so I did what I thought would help me. I threw a ward not only in my river but in the lane-bush he always creeped in. Again, that didn't really help at all. I knew he was there anyway so physically seeing him didn't give me an advantage. I also probably made the mistake of building a thorn mail against him considering he's a caster and not so AA reliant but even so, we hardly got in scraps at all.

I had 2.5x his CS by 10 minutes though I was down 2 kills but because his laning was so safe, it didn't effect him at all. I had 3 ganks, and in total, I think I got my full combo off about 12 times, 3 of those times including my ult, but no dice.

Lagor1 votes

LEAVE RENGAR AND KHA ZIX ALONE

TomTom2021 votes

Imo I'd have to agree with this guy and the fact that his early game (and counterjungling abilities) are just plain outright op unless he some how becomes useless late game.Rengar

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