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My Gripes with Dynamic Queue

Lenaro·6/16/2016, 10:49:46 AM·25 votes·1,009 views

While I'm aware that DQ complaint threads are dime-a-dozen I wanted to voice my complaints in the only reasonable fashion possible. There is a premade on practically every team and it majorly detracts from the enjoyment I get out of a match. I won't complain about queue times and I won't complain about ranked integrity as each has been beaten to death - my complaints are from the perspective of a frequently solo player and regarding my own personal satisfaction from playing with a premade. I have never played a single match with a premade where my experience was improved. Premades, in my experience, only have the potential to ruin my matches.

  • Not all premades are made equal and typically it becomes immediately apparent which team will win based entirely on the coordination of a premade.
  • Premades are also consistently hostile and I don't give one shit what your metrics suggest Riot: vitriolic behavior is infinitely worse this season, mainly due to how overwhelming it is when it occurs. Some random asshole talking shit won't ruin my game, but a premade who makes it their mission to do so will.
  • I personally think premades default to hostility, especially in a competitive environment.
  • Even if I assume that premades are premades are always equally coordinated and skilled, their role assignment is often skewed in such a way that one premade has a massive advantage over another. As an example: support, adc, and jungle versus top, support, and adc.
  • Even duo queue was always a massive pain in the ass and I, as a soloQ player, consistently complained about duos during earlier seasons.
  • Premades by design create an environment which saps the individual potential a player can bring to bear. This is especially notable when your individual power is already lacking, as in the case of a support (which I main).

As stated earlier, I know that these threads have beaten this topic to death, but I wanted to provide feedback. Despite the fact that it will, in all probability, be completely ignored by Riot. I'm a loyal customer and fan and while premades have yet to drive me to leave the game I believe they will if they aren't removed, or the playerbase isn't offered an alternative. I only enjoy ranked play and I despise playing with premades, it consistently frustrates me and causes me to stop playing.

19 Comments

DeathBurst6/16/2016, 11:55:36 AM4 votes

{quoted}

There is a premade on practically every team...

There was a Duo in 75% of teams in the old Solo/Duo Q

... and it majorly detracts from the enjoyment I get out of a match

And why didn't it detract in old DuoQ? (oh, ok, you do mention DuoQ later in your post, sorry)

I have never played a single match with a premade where my experience was improved. Premades, in my experience, only have the potential to ruin my matches.

Well, you certainly had matches where the premades supported each others after losing in early games and managed to get back in the game, instead of flaming each other and spiraling the game in a rage-fest in /all chat. That should count for something.

Not all premades are made equal and typically it becomes immediately apparent which team will win based entirely on the coordination of a premade.

That's a gross exaggeration. Not true at all.

Premades are also consistently hostile and I don't give one shit what your metrics suggest Riot: vitriolic behavior is infinitely worse this season, mainly due to how overwhelming it is when it occurs. Some random asshole talking shit won't ruin my game, but a premade who makes it their mission to do so will.

Again, gross exaggeration. There are some ass-hole premades, but saying that premades in general are "consistently hostile" is plain false.

I personally think premades default to hostility, especially in a competitive environment.

After two obvious exaggeration, I'm not very inclined to believe what you personally think... More importantly, this point brings nothing more than the previous one.

Even if I assume that premades are premades are always equally coordinated and skilled, their role assignment is often skewed in such a way that one premade has a massive advantage over another. As an example: support, adc, and jungle versus top, support, and adc.

Being in a premade doesn't mean you magically win. If the botlane wards properly and is playing well, being premade with the jungler doesn't mean the ganks are suddenly 100% guaranteed success.

Even duo queue was always a massive pain in the ass and I, as a soloQ player, consistently complained about duos during earlier seasons.

Well, good, at least one person is finally acknowledging that DynQ is basically not worse than old DuoQ. Thank you, you're the very first one I've seen. Now, if we could take from that that no, DynQ won't kill LoL more than DuoQ did in the past few years, and stop all the b*tching on these boards, that would be great...

Premades by design create an environment which saps the individual potential a player can bring to bear. This is especially notable when your individual power is already lacking, as in the case of a support (which I main).

"Saps" is probably the right term, because it slightly reduce the impact a SoloQ player can have, I agree with that. But slightly reducing your impact doesn't mean you now have 0 impact at all and that the outcome of the game is entirely decided by the premade. You still have an influence, and over the course of many games, it's still this influence that will get you to climb or not. Maybe it's a bit longer to climb now than before, but it's still the same process.

As stated earlier, I know that these threads have beaten this topic to death, but I wanted to provide feedback.

That a respectable endeavor. But I honestly think your feedback is skewed by perception issues, and that the reality is much less bad than what you describe. Basically, everything you say is somewhat true but vastly overblown.

Sh33py6/16/2016, 5:00:50 PM4 votes

I love this post because I just have witnessed the kind of "Dynamic Quene Hell" user are talking. I went in as Solo Q player with the thoughts that I will:

  • Get 4 pres and me as the so called "random"
  • Get a 3 pre team
  • Get a 3 pre enemy team
  • the duo q premates.

What I get was something that I call "BS": my team was entirely a solo q player team while the enemy team had 2x a duo q pre team and 1 solo q player. This isn't fair at all and I don't understand why riot "only" want to fix this kind of fairness in Plat/Dia. "Low" elos should get the same amount of fairness then everyone else.

Even the disrespect of some users... (which isnt new in our League of Salt tbh...) but getting harrassed by "Ez/Izi" is really annoying. I mean hell yeah it's "eaaaassssyyy gg" some kind of way when 1 of the players is a pre of yours.Teemo

I don't wanna bash on "duo q" competely cause it still has my respect (as far the old times goes) I just want to explain my kind of view (even if it may sounds terrible (cause of english and grammar)) it just makes my heart ache to see how people get "unfairly carried" (this is my vision and it is even correct in some ways) because they were in a pre team. Because they fought unknowly maybe against team that only consisted solo q players.Lux <-- (Always positive thinking that's my kind of spirit)

Ofc some user can now say "well try even harder" but that doesn't aviod the fact to lose still, if the enemy team is constantly well coordianted because of the premate powerbuff. If solo q players are doing their placement matches and lose because under unfair conditions (premade powerbuff (2,3,4 premade) then this is reaaaally a big problem in general in my opinion.item 3070

That's why I think Riot needs to put the focus immediately on the Dynamic Quene and balance it instead of giving us skins (seriously how many have we got since season 6?! SO MUCH!!!) and some "op" new champions or reworks. I know Riot doesn't listen to the community much anymore (which is sad) but it makes me even sadder if Riot would destroy their own competitve play by this kind of BS (NA LCS Pro-Players for example as a warning to them about the DyQ).item 3070

I hope that readers of this post didnt get any eye-cancer or become a grammar-"german" (you know what I want to write) but I just wanted to blew off some steam and give a feedback.summoner 3

summoner 6 Have a nice day~summoner 6

Mandang06/16/2016, 4:11:50 PM3 votes

I support you, but I think your argument is a lot stronger if you stick to the fundamental problems with dynamic queue (all of which were on point!) and avoid personal/anecdotal arguments about toxicity of premades. No one can argue against those experiences, but by the same token, if someone else says premades are less toxic than solos in their games, then you can't argue against that - this is why anecdotal arguments get nowhere.

On the other hand, it's simply a fact that everytime Riot extends the flexibility of who can queue, they undermine the quality of the resulting match. And, not to get into the individual arguments for and against, but it's telling that almost every defense of dynamic queue also applies to games with 5 man premade against 5 solos, which even most defenders of dynamic queue will admit are bad games. So, what I'm trying to say is that there's an implied line people are drawing between what's fair and what's not that needs to be talked about more because it fosters discussion and can reveal a bunch of black-and-white arguments to be flawed.

As an example: "Dynamic queue is no different than solo/duo was, unless you're in diamond" - Well, would you say that about 5 solos vs a 5man premade? If not, then where do you draw the line and (importantly) WHY THERE? In my experience on the forums, people just argue for the status quo without giving thought to whether it's the best choice, and I suspect this is what they're doing now. (Another example is players reflexively arguing against increases to the number of bans. Do they have any way of knowing what the best number of bans is? Hell no, it's always been 3.)

Once you get people to admit there's some difference between 3man vs solos and 5man vs solos, then you can check whether that difference really addresses the principle of the problem or whether it's sweeping a legit argument under the rug. Like the OP mentioned, if coordination fudge factors being off or role assignment creating lopsided lanes (even in games that are nominally balanced overall) are undermining game quality, how does that change when it's a premade of 3 versus when it was a premade of 5? So, you can reveal fairly quickly whether the DQ defender actually has an argument or not.

DarkRitual6/16/2016, 2:30:50 PM2 votes

Question, what % of premades are actually toxic for you? Also what % of those premades are club-aligned and how many are just made of random friends lists people?

Most of yojr assumltions about premades being hostile are greatly affected by these numbers. I think you play with many premades who are fine, and do well, but only remember the negative ones (science has shown a very strong negative bias in our memories, so this is most likely what is also occuring here).

The Yetii Rider6/16/2016, 4:46:17 PM2 votes

If the majority of games have a premade in them, that means a good chunk of players are benefitting from the system. The alternative of bringing back solo queue and only allowing one way of playing is just punishing people who want to climb with friends, practice for a team, prep for a local tournament...not every college club can just get better by scrimming in house.

Gene Freakz6/16/2016, 1:12:31 PM2 votes

Well said OP. While not every premade team (or maybe even the majority of premades teams) is toxic, the dynamic queue system has the potential to put a lot of power in a group of toxic a$$holes. Riot is saying that a premade is a correlation to lower levels of toxicity, when in fact I think a lot of lower levels have to do with champ select not necessarily dq. Correlation does not imply causation and we have all seen toxic premades. The system was full of toxic players before dq and now Riot has just allowed toxic players to queue up with each other.

Voidrey6/17/2016, 8:02:17 PM1 votes

honestly, I only got paired up with one premade pair ever, but it was one of the worst games of my life