[DISCUSSION] Suggested Jungle Changes

iJG·5/30/2018, 10:12:43 PM·7 votes·3,974 views

Please give me your opinions on these changes. I want to know the good and the bad this could cause.

First, get rid of scuttles. They just feel weird in the game. All they do is give laners a river ward when they should be warding already.

Second, make red and blue buff drop like they do with Ivern so you can give laners the buffs without missing out on xp/gold.

Third has two options;

  1. Increase gold/xp when clearing enemy camps by 25%. This would result in more jg v jg interaction (in theory.)
  2. Bring back the Poacher's Knife but change it to give 25% gold/xp and remove the 175% movement speed. This would be a risk reward item as it would either end up in a person snowballing or be a useless smite if they get behind. It would also mean they would have to pass up on challenging smite and chilling smite.

10 Comments

BestPudgeNA5/31/2018, 1:11:53 AM3 votes
  1. Revert scuttle crab
  2. Remove level 4-7 XP nerfs and replace them with slight buffs to counteract the level 1-3 xp nerfs
  3. Keep the XP nerfs for level 1-3
  4. Bring back XP penalties for being above camp level, but only for 2 levels above the camp.
  5. Give Runic Echos MS back remove the CD
  6. Buff individual AP junglers pretty much everyone of them whose name doesn't begin with Eve
  7. Reduce mid/late game catchup XP, early is fine you shouldn't be punished super hard for dying once, but you shouldn't get to stay in the game mid/late if you're feeding but your team is winning.
  8. Push back the Xin/Graves nerfs a patch and decide after these changes if they're still OP

Mostly not about JG but these champs all needs lots of nerfs and i don't understand how they weren't nerfed on 8.11 and graves/xin are

ADC Kaisa Ezreal MID/TOP Irelia Zoe Vladimir Camille Jax JG Khazix Gut this braindead trashcan of a champ SupRakan Morgana Lulu

RekSai CoffeeCo5/30/2018, 11:26:58 PM2 votes

Have to wholeheartedly agree on removing scuttle changes.

Buffs not so much that is one of the upsides of playing ivern.

You say poachers knife (dirk?) but I'm guessing you mean tracker's knife.

poopPOT1015/30/2018, 10:28:41 PM1 votes

I like the thought with the jg vs jg but everything else is trash because say you remove scuttle then what would the jg with the lead be able to control to get an uperhand and trackers knife is not a good idea because 25% More xp would result in every jg building It every game even if it were only say 5% that would be ridiculously hard to balance Lastly the buffs is also a possibility but then why would anyone pick ivern and also the whole point of giving a laner a buff Is to give them an upperhand in lane at the cost of you losing out on exp and gold if that were a thing what reason would a jg have for not just giving the buff to midlane EVERY time its up I like the thought tho

AirKingNeo5/30/2018, 11:30:32 PM1 votes
  1. Increase gold/xp when clearing enemy camps by 25%. This would result in more jg v jg interaction (in theory.)

lol what

  1. Bring back the Poacher's Knife but change it to give 25% gold/xp and remove the 175% movement speed.

no one would build it still


Do you actually know anything about the jungle?

Aptest5/31/2018, 5:20:19 PM1 votes

Here are my thoughts.

1

Laners need(ed) more ways to interact with the jungler, that are not initiated by a jungler. That is to say, more ways to interact that are not "keeping your self safe from a gank" or "keeping track of enemy jungler".

Scuttle fills this role now, because it is both important, accessible, and not something that the jungler does in the darkness and can hide the timers to.

In wayback, laners used to poach all the time. See Darian's Shyvana with her push and poach style. But there has been a number of jungle (and lane) changes that stopped poaching. First of all, hunter's machete and subsequent items + jungle health changes made laners much less able to poach efficiently. Then jungle spawn timers increased, so much less available loot in the jungle - the jungler clears everything and when he is ganking there is nothing to be gained in poaching, which leaves warding the enemy jungler, in preparation for future ganks.

Furthermore if the jungler is present, contesting enemy jungler for his camps, much time is consumed. the contested camp or possible fight outcome must be worth the time spent and lane minions lost. Since jungler also have great advantage in securing contested camp, with smite now having a miniscule CD (previously, smite on CD 70 sec is relevant concern, whereas now, CD=15 sec???), not being sure timer on enemy jungler and going for kill is heavily determinable. But long spawn timers allow for junglers to not be 100% efficient so hard to time enemy jungler perfectly.

Third option used to be to contest on blue buff. Blue buff was much more important because mana regen for most champions was more sucky. Also it gave AP. Therefore it was a good objective to contest. But now it is nerfed and also it is less a team resource, and many jungler just take buff and treat camp like other camps. therefore blue buff used to be good team mini objective, for top laner or mid laners to gangbang enemy jungler in. now not anymore.

neutral objectives that are both important and accessible make jungle area of the map "interactive" for laners (i.e. jungler is being invaded and hates his life, jungler is compelled to defend objective rather than trade objectives, and then gets invaded and hates his life). Because of previous changes this feature in jungle is lacking therefore jungler has un-answered (from lane perspective) agency.

New Scuttle provides these removed properties of other camps and buffs. that it feels crappy and scummy to jungler is natural because all these changes make experience of jungling worse (but experience of laning better). How to resolve without scuttle? Maybe reduce camp spawn timer, and re-introduce mechanic of small camp critter blocking the camp respawn ?

2

I am ok with buffs dropping and jungler being able to transfer buff without losing gold and xp. But jungler can not also get buff with ivern mechanic. Buff drops and then can be taken or even stolen. Doesn't hurt the game, as long as there's only one buff per team (ivern and freak buff transfer accidents excluding).

3

Poachers knife should be re-introduced, but as a TOP LANE ITEM. That will do 2 things: it gives TOOTH AND NAIL passive but only against enemy side jungle camps, and it allows you to ward the enemy jungle camp with a special ward. That ward has very small range of vision, but it also RESETS THE SPAWN TIMER OF THE CAMP IT IS ON. I.E. going into the enemy jugnle with this item allows you to take the camps fast, and also gives you a way of messing up the other jungler's gank/farm windows. And ofcourse it should auto-upgrade into serrated dirk.

4

your notes are geared towards you as a jungler getting a better experience against the other jungler. That is not the point. The point is laners of both teams getting better experience against both team's jugnlers. I.E. to nerf the jungle, but not in a meaningless "less XP" or "less gold" way, but rather by making more viable interactions against jugnler.