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We covered LB, now can we cover Kayle?

Zwaard·5/17/2016, 2:35:53 PM·4 votes·1,026 views

I was just reading the awesome discussion about how to counter Le Blanc (there were some awesome ideas in there, and maybe I'll have a chance against her next time), and I was hoping to have a similar topic about Kayle.

I know she's an "easy" champ. I know her abilities and I've played her a few games to get an idea of her CD, her abilities, etc. But I can never seem to successfully lane against a Kayle.

My go-to champs are Viktor and Brand, both with good waveclear, but I can't match Kayle, especially early before I get my E augment on Viktor.

Take last game for example. I'm Viktor against a Kayle, I trade effectively levels 1-3 when her W(?) is down. It's a close fight but her ignite ticks away and I die. From then on, I have to hug my tower to CS while she goes to kill my bot lane. When I get my E aug, I can clear better, but anytime I get close, she just autos away.

By the time I have my first item and my first augment, she's 6/0 having killed me twice and my jungler (x2) and bot lane. My CS is relatively equal, but I'm starved of kills since she just ults herself or anyone who is low in a teamfight, right as I'm about to kill them.

Do I follow her when she roams, even post lvl 6? She will certainly kill me 1v1 without a tower if her ult is up. My CC isn't reliable enough to prevent her ult, and she moves faster with her Q than I do, so I'll be late to her roams.

MR helps a little, but she's mixed damage so it doesn't help as much.

Kayle feels like gg, as soon as she gets her Nashor's Tooth.

Thoughts? Feelings? "git gud"?

12 Comments

EndlessSorcerer5/17/2016, 2:51:55 PM4 votes

Kayle is really reliant on her E. It is her main source of sustained damage and waveclear while also being her only really means of farming from range.

Without CDR, her E lasts 10s on a 16s cooldown. Your best opportunity to trade with Kayle is when her E has a couple seconds left on its duration since it will be down for almost the entirety of the trade and she will likely still be close (hitting minions). She's significantly weaker during this time period, so take advantage of it.

Kayle's Q has 650 range and her E-enhanced AAs have 525 range and both are targeted. This means that:

  1. Kayle is out-ranged by the primary harass ability of many mid-laners, meaning that they can poke her down from outside her retaliation range. While she can heal some of the damage taken, this will be a further drain on her mana (when she doesn't typically build mana or mana regen outside of Doran's Rings and Sheen).
  2. Kayle's damage is targeted and requires that she have vision of the target. Champions with stealth or who are in position to abuse bushes/fog-of-war can greatly mitigate a lot of her damage.

A great portion of Kayle's damage requires that she has max stacks of Fervor of Battle and Guinsoo's Rageblade. When fighting her, it can often be a good idea to trade with her and then back out, waiting for her stacks to fall off before reengaging.

Try to avoid wasting your main source of burst damage on her ultimate. Try to bait it out before engaging (or wait for its duration to end).

Personally, I try to pick Irelia into Kayle when I have the chance since I can easily fight her early-game and control when I engage. Other champions who can get on top of Kayle (i.e. Renekton, Olaf) can do pretty well against her.

If you are looking for mid-laners to play against her, then Azir can be a pretty brutal match-up. He can easily harass her from outside of her effective range (and keep her there with his ultimate) and his sustained damage makes her ultimate far less useful (since he doesn't really waste any high-cooldown burst damage).

Champions who can counterher push her and/or harass her down from range when she's trying to pick are good options too. Some examples would be Varus, Ziggs, Corki, Viktor, Ahri, Karthus, Lulu and Xerath.

Stardew Valley5/17/2016, 2:50:14 PM1 votes

You have to remember the fact that she's quite immobile. Try going for mobile, hard cc champs.

Viktor relies more on his burst damage. He's not very mobile and his W is not very reliable for cc.

You can also go for long ranged champs because even with her E, she needs to get pretty close to you.

venomous frost5/17/2016, 2:41:41 PM1 votes

you can outrange her and back off before she can retaliate. For example anivia, QE her, and back off before he gets to attack you, you can even wall her off. she will have no resistances so she can't take much burst from you.

Sylverblitz5/17/2016, 3:36:34 PM1 votes

You have to bait out her ultimate which is pretty hard since good Kayle players will save it until you think "I've got her!" and then you're dead while she limps away. If you're playing Viktor then your best bet is your snare as she isn't very mobile but with it being a little slow she may dodge it. Perhaps better to use it to zone when you see her trying to cs or poke her with your E when she tries to. Anything you can do to make her lane presence hell and have to waste mana healing will help you a lot.

Zwaard5/17/2016, 3:58:13 PM1 votes

What about roams? Is it better in general to push lane and take tower or follow? Unlike most champions, she can match my wave clear so it's difficult to put damage on the tower.

And go for abyssal or not worth?

Beuhlakor5/17/2016, 4:25:58 PM1 votes

I played a lot Kayle recently in toplane and midlane, here were my worst MU :

  1. Tryndamere => he sustains all Kayle's harass easily, he outscales her in 1v1 and even in early game, he has enough mobility to force trades and he pretty much wins all of them because of his AD debuff and his sustain.
  2. Fizz => Kayle murders Fizz pretty hard in very early game but as soon as he has his ultimate and enough points in his troll pole, he has enough delayed burst to force Kayle to back every time he uses ultimate + troll pole (against any good Fizz player, Kayle will have to choose between ulting his ultimate or his troll pole which sucks because both of them deal tremendeous damages AND his AA have very good damages thanks to his W).
  3. Leblanc => she can easily forces Kayle to use her ultimate and then she has to play very defensive because she doesn't have enough range / defense to avoid Leblanc.
  4. Yasuo => he has insane in-lane mobilty, he can use windwall to counter he point and click slow and therefore, retreat to safety before taking too much damages from her auto-attacks. And thanks to his mobility, he can abuse quite hard her E CD in lane, denying her a lot of minions.
  5. Jungler.

Now all the advices EndlessSorcerer gave you are good but I wouldn't recommend taking long range champions (except maybe Varus) against Kayle in midlane. Most of the time, it simply ended as a farm fest with me, as Kayle, pushing like a madman and roaming very efficiently thanks to her ultimate. Also, except for a couple of champions, she outscales almost everyone so having a "safe" lane but giving her free farm is not the best idea imo.

SithesisLord5/17/2016, 2:52:52 PM1 votes

A Viktor losing to a Kayle is like a Leona top losing to a Riven.

It´s a case of playing poorly, really.

Seeing the match history you went Ghost/Flash...why?

She went with DFT, which is a piss poor keystone on Kayle

And you started Q first. Against Kayle, Death Ray is better. Does more damage and forces her to take it and back off, or dodge it and stay defensive.

Been against enough Viktor's as Kayle to know that the angel suffer a whole lot in that matchup.