Defensive stat runes need to have their values doubled (or more)

ArtumisPrime·11/21/2018, 4:27:20 AM·103 votes·17,683 views

Before runes were turned into the abomination we see them as today, the defensive stats were higher than they are currently. If you took armor yellows and MR seals, which was a staple in a huge majority of situations, you would have 9 armor and 12 MR. Now, if you take the armor and MR defensive stat runes, you get 5 and 6, respectively.

This doesn't seem so bad, except that we have access to a lot more damage and penetration now. With things like keystones like dark harvest and electrocute, coupled with a ton of armor/magic penetration items, the 5 armor and 6 MR is not only a joke, it's almost worthless. Even in the early game, especially considering the fact that you can get 12 AD or 20 AP at level 1 with adaptive force.

83 Comments

Khristophoros11/21/2018, 5:16:38 AM46 votes

If they are doubled that puts them roughly on par with the offensive shards in terms of gold value, so any more than double would be too much.

MrFawknSunshine11/21/2018, 5:10:42 AM13 votes

well its better then what it was when you got zero armor/mr at lvl 1 from runes and every one had damage from lvl 1

WalkingInACircle11/21/2018, 5:47:07 AM8 votes

I don't really want people starting with 20 bonus armor or mr, I'd be happy with 10 of each but not stackable.

D4M2X011/21/2018, 1:22:21 PM5 votes

every champ got more base stats for the removal of the old runes.

i still giggle how riot gave vlad more HP but gave fiddle +9 armor

Socon11/21/2018, 5:50:44 AM5 votes

They're balanced, they're not meant to be on par with old runes. The old rune system was removed for a reason.

Bjørnetjenesten11/21/2018, 5:30:50 PM5 votes

While you are right that defense needs to be stronger, you are forgetting that every champion had their resistance/hp buffed last preseason, exactly because of the removal of runes.

Preseason 8 buff + the new stat runes = old defense runes.

Mykedejong11/21/2018, 1:51:02 PM4 votes

Kinda like the way it is now don't want another tank meta with shield bash

ProfDrDeath11/21/2018, 9:56:22 AM4 votes

If you took armor yellows and MR seals, which was a staple in a huge majority of situations, you would have 9 armor and 12 MR. Now, if you take the armor and MR defensive stat runes, you get 5 and 6, respectively.

First point to remember: When Runes Reforged hit, every champion got compensation for their seals (mostly, they got said 9 armor, except for mages, who got their 12 HP/level they had as seals). Also, AD champions got their marks incorporated into their kits, as well. The main runes not incorporated were the glyphs and, in a lot of cases, the quints - and while the path bonuses were supposed to care of the power loss from quints, the 12-27 MR from glyphs most people used just vanished.

So, if you go double MR, you get those 12 MR back - and with the remaining offensive slot, the power of 2-3 quints (2 AP quints gave 10 AP, whereas 3 AD quints gave about 6.9 AD). Basically, with this update, you now have virtually all the stats from the common rune choices back.

This doesn't seem so bad, except that we have access to a lot more damage and penetration now. With things like keystones like dark harvest and electrocute, coupled with a ton of armor/magic penetration items, the 5 armor and 6 MR is not only a joke, it's almost worthless. Even in the early game, especially considering the fact that you can get 12 AD or 20 AP at level 1 with adaptive force.

Early game, AD and AP were always stronger stats than resistances (or resistance penetration). This is due to the fact that AD/AP are primary stats and resistances are multiplicators for another primary stat (Health). From that PoV, I agree with you that the HP choice is underpowered. However, another factor that plays into the relative power of resistances vs. offensive stats is the presence of base damage.

However, if you look at the value of 10 AP and 6 MR, you'll find that they are, in fact, comparable: A 250 base damage, 0.8 AP ratio ability against a 0 MR/6 MR target. With 0 AP, the ability does 250/235.8 damage (94.3%) With 10 AP, the ability does 258/243.4 damage (94.3%) 10 AP increases this ability's damage by 3.2%/3.2%.

That same ability against a more realistic 36/42 MR target. With 0 AP, the ability does 183.8/176.1 damage (95.8%) With 10 AP, the ability does 189.7/181.7 damage (95.8%) 10 AP increases this ability's damage by 3.2%/3.2%.

That same ability with more AP (200). With 200 AP, the ability does 301.5/288.7 damage (95.8%) With 210 AP, the ability does 307.4/294.4 damage (95.8%) An additional 10 AP increases the ability's damage by 2.0%/2.0%.

These examplary numbers show the general trends behind these values: For someone who primarily builds AD or AP, getting the resistances will make more of an impact than getting the additional AD or AP in the majority of the game (all the time except at the very early levels were the base damages are really low). For someone who primarily builds defense, in contrast, the AD/AP will mean more.

Alzon11/21/2018, 3:07:44 PM4 votes

I remember walking out of base with 102 armor as pre-rework Taric, or 80 something as Malphite.

Or Galio with 60 something MR.

TotalJerk11/21/2018, 7:36:18 PM3 votes

The problem is that with preseason 8 Riot massively buffed the fuck out of a ton of champions' base armor and health, then later nerfed a ton of magic damage users to compensate for the removal of armor seals, health seals and and MR glyphs. They probably made the defensive shards shitty to compensate for this, but it ultimately just means squishy champions can't have good defensive shards because tanky champions are already tanky enough.

Kárma11/22/2018, 1:56:25 AM3 votes

LoL before this new runes was better. today its all about damage and damage now.

Projectile Vomit11/21/2018, 6:07:00 AM3 votes

hmm, maybe not doubled but something like x1.2, just a tad bit stronger than they are right now

Disembark11/21/2018, 1:42:28 PM2 votes

This is stupid. The whole point is that you are able to stack for your lane opponent (10arm/12mr). Doubling the values would be stupid because in most cases people would double up (20arm/24mr) which would make the game stupid as shit.

There needs to be a way to force them to get 10 arm and/or 12 mr, not stack 24 mr and be unkillable.

ModCaptainMårvelous11/21/2018, 4:55:42 PM1 votes

Rune shards for armor/mr are fine. Especially if you take double depending on the comp.

Walking to lane with 50+ armor because I took double armor is pretty gross against an all AD team.

Starcraft243ver11/22/2018, 9:15:25 AM1 votes

. If you took armor yellows and MR seals, which was a staple in a huge majority of situations, you would have 9 armor and 12 MR.

Maybe you do not remember it but they boosted the base armor and mr of most champions when they removed the runes.

Modl Ryden l11/22/2018, 9:26:55 AM1 votes

Yeah they would need to be bumped up by like 1 or 2 points.

Cloth Armor is 300g for 15 armor, 20g per 1 armor. Null Magic Mantle is 450g for 25 MR, 18g per 1 MR. Longsword is 350g for 10 AD, 35g per 1 AD. Amplifying Tome is 435g for 20 AP, ~22g per 1 AP.

So the the adaptive force rune shard is worth roughly 210g (for 6 AD) or ~220g (got 10 AP) so almost even. While the armor rune shard is worth roughly 100g (for 5 armor) and the MR rune shard 108g (for 6 MR) again almost even.

However there is also the factor of 'effective health' of how efficiently you can soak damage (the % damage ignore) regarding how big your HP pool is when paired with your defensive stats. Unlike AD and AP stats, armor and MR are multiplicative.

You don't consider this with AP or AD stats as those are merely added ontop of your base stats and are therefore additive.

FéliXXX11/22/2018, 5:39:27 PM1 votes

they added base armor to every champ after they removed the old runes and now they give you 10 more for free when lethality champs got hard nerffed in s8 and even more in s9 a lethality champ have to spend 1100g in 10 scalling lethality meanwhile you have to click 2 times for win the lane... cmon