Why do 0 risk champions get kill potential?

Report Team GG·2/8/2015, 7:53:15 PM·6 votes·1,538 views

Riot loves to talk about "counterplay" (tm), windows of opportunity (tm), and interactivity (tm).

But look at champions like Nidalee, Ahri, and Lux. Ignore their state of balance. Ignore their state of balance. I said that twice because I'm going to get some idiot who doesn't read that and says something about Lux being balanced.

These champions are incredibly safe which is fine if that's their thing. I don't mind a farm lane or whatever. But it's absurdly frustrating when they're allowed to kill you but you aren't allowed to kill them. They're allowed to outplay you, but you're not allowed to outplay them.

Take Nid for example. Her "window of opportunity" is smaller than the thermal exhaust hatch on the death star. Chosen Master Yi couldnt even hit it if he closed his eyes and believed in the force. Her playstyle: chuck spears @ 1500 range until you have enough burst in cougar to instagib them in less than 1 second. Then do a Michael Jackson 360 and moonwalk the fuck away. Where's the vulnerability Riot? Where's the interaction? There's no interaction in spear spam dodging. Eventually some will hit. There's no interaction in getting execute-bursted from a 700 range gap closer in less than 1 second. Should you catch Nid out or even significantly weaken her? Pounce, pounce, heal, heal, heal. You can't catch nid. You can't kil nid. You don't interact with nid.

Or take Ahri for example. Ahri is never at risk. She's incredibly safe but for some reason she gets great all in burst potential. What? If I cant kill her, why can she kill me? Even if you severely outplay an Ahri, you still can't kill her.

The problem is exacerbated by the fact that if you somehow do get in their face, they still escape with their 1 million safety moves. If a champ can get kills they should have to take risks and "make plays."

Even champs like Zed as safe as he is, have to get in melee range to farm and get kills. And at least there's some counterplay to zed whether you pick exhaust, zhonyas or qss. Champs like Ahri, Lux, Nidalee do not have that vulnerability. If you get in their face (supposedly a weakness of a squishy ranged mage) they CC you/escape with their superior mobility/heal/shield. They have way too many tools to get away if you do somehow catch them when they're supposedly vulnerable. And even then, at point blank Lux, Ahri, and Nid aren't necessarily even weaker. At point blank you just have a chance to hit them a couple times.... But not kill them because they get away with their idiotproof kits

13 Comments

Thanotos Omega2/8/2015, 8:00:18 PM3 votes

If you choose to stick around a harass champion after they whittle you down then you deserve to get killed, Lux has to be in AA range for a decent chunk of her damage, and needs you at about 1/4th HP for her Laser to kill you, if you can't manage to find the weakness in that or pull out before she finishes you off that's on you,

Knight SoIaire 2/8/2015, 8:13:21 PM3 votes

Even champs like Zed as safe as he is, have to get in melee range to farm and get kills.

zed is a bad example since he actualy can farm from range zed is closer to being like ahri and nida, he pokes till infinity and never goes oom just waiting till he can all inn you also lets not forget that zed actualy can get qqs and upgrade it

SmokingPuffin2/8/2015, 9:19:42 PM2 votes

Or take Ahri for example. Ahri is never at risk. She's incredibly safe but for some reason she gets great all in burst potential. What? If I cant kill her, why can she kill me? Even if you severely outplay an Ahri, you still can't kill her.

Ahri takes risks to generate kill pressure. If she's sitting back playing safe, she has only Q for damage, which is a shorter ranged, skinnier, slower skillshot than similar buttons from other mages. Ahri makes kills by using her ult and landing a charm -- both of these expose her to counterplay.

As it happens, Ahri is pretty overtuned today, but from a design standpoint she was the healthiest assassin prior to this recent rework. She's still very healthy now.

Where's the vulnerability Riot? Where's the interaction? There's no interaction in spear spam dodging. Eventually some will hit.

This is the main complaint about Nidalee, and it's why Nidalee's spear was nerfed big time in her rework. It's still a problem though. Nidalee's basic counterplay pattern is to just survive until she becomes useless, and that's not very healthy.

There's no interaction in getting execute-bursted from a 700 range gap closer in less than 1 second.

Of course there is. You can be tanky enough that you don't explode. You can avoid being within 700 range when hunted. You can use summoners or items to not die. You can bait her into jumping on you at a bad time. You can kill her before she kills you.

New Nidalee's cougar play pattern is actually quite healthy. Lots of reward and lots of risk.

And even then, at point blank Lux, Ahri, and Nid aren't necessarily even weaker. At point blank you just have a chance to hit them a couple times.... But not kill them because they get away with their idiotproof kits

What if I told you that, far from being idiot proof, these are generally high skill champions?

I have no idea how Lux is escaping you, by the way. The other two are fairly slippery, but Lux might as well be a tackling dummy.

TheKingDodo2/8/2015, 7:55:19 PM1 votes

LC$

SlytherinUmbreon2/8/2015, 8:52:01 PM1 votes

But Lux is balanced doe :3 You said someone was going to, so I had to do it. It was predetermined. GBJ confirmed to be a Zilean main.