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Anyone else feels like there is TOO MUCH CDR in the game?

DrDubb·9/24/2019, 7:39:31 AM·37 votes·14,229 views

I personally find it frustrating to have so much CDR from an itemization perspective. I'm a mid main, and I wont even go into how efficient LUDENS ECHO is and how it's the Black Cleaver of mid lane... if you're a burst mage you ALWAYS build it first no matter what because it gives you EVERYTHING a mage needs unlike any other item (extra scaling burst dmg, wave clear, 20%CDR, mana item, HIGH AP) Damn, I said this wasn't about Luden's Echo ( or Black Cleaver...)

Anyways. It's DIFFICULT to not have a build that goes over 40% CDR. It's a crappy feeling every game. Absolute Focus being weaker recently, and 10% CDR in the rune stats, compounds the situation. Although I often take Absolute Focus over Transcendence, I can't see myself trading 10% CDR for 9AP... Ludens ECHO plus the 10% CDR from runes is already 30%, so pick your 10% item carefully. Zhonyas? Banshees? Hextech item? Twin Shadows? Lich Bane?Maybe you're a AP bruiser who wants Spirit Visage. I find it ridiculous an optimal build can't have more than one these item's and Luden's together. After boots, your other 3 items HAVE to be Void Staff, Rabadons, Liandries, Rylais, Morrelonomicon, or Mejais.

Maybe you're playing ARAM and want some weird itemization but often can't because it's ALWAYS over 40% CDR. Tanks have it EVEN WORSE. Pretty much CAN'T build Black Cleaver and Frozen Gauntlet together, because your MR item will put you over the cap. And I don't think you're running Transcendence as a tank, so you dont even have the chance to benefit from the extra adaptive force.

When looking for an optimal build, often times I find myself tiptoing around the CDR cap instead of building the items I would have liked to build initially. Overall... ALL the CDR feels bad. And I'm not even coming at it from a power creep/game pace perspective, I'm talking about it from a pure itemization perspective.

Does anyone else feel similarly?

P.S. Why are Ionian Boots even an item any more? If it wasn't for the summoner spell buff, they'd be COMPLETELY obsolete. Even the traditional support characters that would RUSH these boots don't because of excess CDR in every item. They're just better off with literally any other item. (Sorcerer boots for brand lux ect. Even tank boots are better than Ionian boots for beefier supports. Swiftness/mobi boots are almost always good on supps)

61 Comments

Umbral Knight9/24/2019, 11:04:55 AM8 votes

Almost every AP CDR item has Mana. Meaning any non mana AP mid has to pay for a stat they cant use. On top of that the items with CDR and no mana are lower AP and defensive in most cases, ie: Zhonyas and Banshee's. The highest AP no mana with CDR is Nashor's Tooth at 80 but then its so niche most wont want to build it.

My issue with CDR items is not the number but HOW MUCH they give mana champs. Archangel's Staff is the 2nd best AP item in the game and it gives 20% CDR and an assload of mana. Thankfully the ability haste on it and Luden's means you cant nab Luden's for a quick 40% CDR, but with the 600 Mana getting Ludens even with that ability not stacking doesn't suck and still gives you 30% CDR. And then you get wave clear, a shield, and enough mana to not really worry about spamming that much. Two items and suddenly its like you don't have mana if you play even a little bit smart.

I don't mind the presence of CDR. I mind the way its stacked for mana based champs to easily have 40% within like 2 items but others have to sacrifice to hopefully meet 40% CDR with 3 or 4 items and typically with building something with stats you don't need and at a loss of AP.

Posui Gart9/24/2019, 7:55:37 AM5 votes

CDR is a stat that allows making items stronger without buffing damage Imagine Ludens without 20% CDR. How will it be compensated? More AP? That just adds to the "oneshot meta" Less cost? Agin, that means people will get their (90 AP+passive) item sooner while their enemies have lower hp, which again just improves the oneshot potential CDR is a way to make the item stronger(and more expencive) without buffing the one-combo-damage If you find yourself overstacking cdr, Transcendence is actually a nice choice, even on tanks.

Starcraft243ver9/24/2019, 11:19:54 AM5 votes

I think you focus way too much on not overcapping cdr :

According to this : https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Gold_efficiency

1% cdr is worth 26.6 gold and 1 Ap cost 21.75 gold Transcendance earns you 2 Ap for every 1% cdr overcap, so you are turning 26.6 gold into 43,5 gold if you overcap while having transcendance.

Even if you overcap on cdr and do not get transcendance, you only lose 266 gold worth of stats, thats nothing.

PapaGreg219/24/2019, 1:52:56 PM4 votes

I don't know why there are any items with cdr. Everything would be much easier to balance if CDR was simply set at 0 for every champion. Then Riot could just adjust it so you are using abilities at an appropriate level.

Eedat9/24/2019, 4:29:13 PM4 votes

They added a bunch of CDR in exchange for removing raw AD/AP so in theory a single combo would do less burst but it would be up more frequently to compensate. And in that manner it worked.

People like to say that this is "one shot meta" and it's unique to now but either they never played older seasons or they're piss drunk on nostalgia. I mean aside from some issues with duskblade that have been rectified. People think being killed over 3-4 or more seconds also count as "being one shotted" now which is laughable. Back in season 3 Leblanc would one shot you in under half a second while being silenced the whole time. Ahri would one shot you in the duration of her hard CC. Veigar would buy DFG and point and click DFG>Q>R with no need for W or E. Fizz didn't need his delayed ult to one shot. Don't even get me started on Kassawin. ***98% ban rate ***lmao. Practically any AP champ with DFG could legitimately one shot you.

The Kombinator9/24/2019, 10:18:34 AM3 votes

To be honest i think, that CDR should go back to the support style.

Supports still got less gold, than others. Except Pyke. Which means, that they need special treatment to make them not op on other lanes, but still useful in their role. There are 2 ways to do this.

  1. Make it unable to work alone, or massively nerfed by it. For example Soraka can't use her main heal on herself. Which makes her solo laning capabilities lowered greatly.

  2. Give it big base values, but low scaling. That way even without the massive AP/AD/MR/armor items they can be useful, and the support CDR items would be cheaper, but with less other stats, than the usual items. You could still build CDR for an assassin, but it would sacrifice some AD to do so. Same with tanks. They could build the support tank items with CDR, but that would mean sacrificing some defense.

Saezio9/24/2019, 12:28:25 PM3 votes

Change all 20% cdr items to 10% reduce their cost by 150-200g. See how it goes from there. Make getting 40% CDR an actual investment (be it via runes or items) and not a collateral acquisition.

xelaker9/24/2019, 1:51:46 PM3 votes

Too many things have cdr on them. Used to be you had to buy an item that wasn't a great power spike for cdr. Items, just like champs, have become super amazing do-it-all masterpieces.

Wild Geese9/24/2019, 2:03:47 PM3 votes

You seen the overcapped crit transcendence build? It's proof that CDR is too much right now

You take some champion like, Riven Yasuo Tryndamere MasterYi or it'd probably work on many others, just ones I've seen... You make some combination of: item 3161 item 3508 item 3812 item 3071 item 3078 item 3046, throw in a item 3139 / item 3026 you're already overcapped by 20% on 3 items anyway.

With transcendance you hit about 500 ad with crit. So insanely high damage, good survival, 40% cdr, there's basically no tradeoffs.

Older League had problems, but you usually had to chose if you were going for CDR or if you were going for damage, or a mix of damage and survival.

Fëalnort9/24/2019, 2:19:28 PM3 votes

Too much CDR

Too much mana

ressources management for midlaner has become less and less important over the years and it's a shame.

Hemulen Magi9/25/2019, 3:17:33 AM3 votes

Looking back at this issue after all these years, here's what I think I would like:

20% CDR: item 3110 item 3040 item 3042 item 3115

15% CDR: item 3110 item 3003 item 3004 item 3078 item 3025

10% CDR: item 3101 item 3158 item 3071 item 3142 item 3905 item 3056 item 3102 item 3157 item 3174 item 3024 item 3050 item 3147 item 3100 item 3098 item 3092 item 3096 item 3069 item 3401 item 3161 item 3107 item 2065 item 3504 item 3800 item 3108 item 3222 item 1402 item 1412 item 3152 item 3802 item 3114 item 3285 item 3030 item 3508

5% CDR: item 3057 item 3133 item 3067 item 3813 item 3001 item 3065 item 3070 item 3163 item 3301 item 3083

0% CDR: item 3194 [Most items losing CDR would be compensated. Adaptive Helm could receive increased MR for example.]

No more Haste passive on item 3802 or items built from it.

item 3070 gives 5% CDR. Items built from Tear of the Goddess grant stats from both mana and over-capped CDR (replacing Transcendence rune).

item 3110 builds out of item 3070 + item 3024 + item 3082 and transforms into an upgraded version when Awe is fully stacked. Awe grants bonus health. The upgraded version has a stronger, ramping-up aura which can be toggled on, costing mana each second.

item 3004 builds out of item 3070 + item 3101, gaining its Shock passive (reduced to 1.5% mana on-hit) before upgrading to item 3042 (allowing the full 3% mana on-hit after upgrade). Because it would no longer build from item 1037, it would provide less AD, and the recipe change would make it somewhat more expensive. Manamune would offer a way for mana-gated AD champions to continue building CDR, while resourceless AD champions would have considerably less access to CDR than before. CDR capping doesn't need to be a super common thing for every champion class, and compensating some items with other strengths, like increased defensive stats, could help improve the game pace.

Transcendence rune is removed (now part of Awe passive) and it is replaced by a Spell Weaving or Expose Weakness rune (just give it a 'Sorcery' sounding name, like Blighting Curse, and give it synergy with DOT and AOE).

Also if Magic Resistance is increased on many items to compensate for reduced CDR on them, there will be room for a new Sorcery keystone tailored to DPS APCs. Deathfire Touch can make a return as a rune that reduces immediate ability damage dealt in exchange for a larger amount of delayed damage over time. This will allow players to give up instant burst potential in order to deal DOT DPS. For example, the keystone could convert 30% of damage that would be dealt by abilities into a burn over 4 seconds that deals 55% of the original ability damage. This would result in the ability doing 125% in total but spread out over a longer period. Squishy targets would normally die within 4 seconds of fighting, so this mostly impacts fighting frontliners, hence why this addition to the game would fit with increased availability of Magic Resistance on frontliner items.

Bugog9/24/2019, 8:12:08 PM3 votes

I've said it before, and riven main came out of the woodwork to shout at me, but CDR should be a support item stat.

That creates a system where carries stack AP/AD so their abilities have high impact damage, but supports can cast their support/disruption abilities more often at the cost of damage.

Moody P9/24/2019, 10:55:54 AM3 votes

CDR is so low gold that you're barely wasting gold by over capping. And it's never been hard to itemize. Ever.

floo9/24/2019, 3:03:30 PM2 votes

I feel like I use my ults far to rarely when playing say Rakan or Vayne, because I think "hey I could win that fight without ulting and use it in another situation", when basically the spell is already back up when I walk back to lane. It's kind of ridiculous how even adc's opt for 20%+ cdr nowadays. Just absolutely not used to it, even though I play a lot more than seasons ago. IMO there shouldn't be 20% cdr items in the first place, as well as less cdr items in general.

Mordepool9/24/2019, 11:36:01 AM2 votes

To answer your question, just for meta champs

Literal IRL Tree9/24/2019, 4:27:11 PM2 votes

Really its just mage items having too much cdr, you don't even have to really want the cdr just every single damn one has it now.

Thilmer9/24/2019, 2:05:41 PM2 votes

Often I'm in the middle of a game and I think: "We are at minute 20; I should buy CDR next".

Then I check and I have already buy 20% CDR because everything gives CDR for no clear reason nowadays.

Like item 3083 . Why the fuck does this give 10% CDR? And as a unique passive, yeah, because otherwise people is going to buy two Warmogs to get 20% CDR, you know…

Then you have item 3071 , the ítem that gives a massive 20% CDR just because Riven builds it (and that's literally the only reason this ítem still gives CDR at this point).

The list goes on. There are many ítems that give CDR for no real reason.

Daddy Ants9/24/2019, 12:26:12 PM1 votes

Yes there is.

Transcendence Cosmic Insight Support items are bloated with CDR also. I'm talking item 3098 item 3098 item 3097 giving supports access to 15% cdr on their first base if they take cosmic insight which most do. CDR on every single tank item. CDR on majority of bruiser items. CDR on every single AD assassin item.

OP Garen Support9/24/2019, 5:08:11 PM1 votes

Mages lost 500 AP to get that much CD instead. Don't forget that.

DrDubb9/24/2019, 8:25:10 AM1 votes

To make clear - My main problem with it is the wasted gold/stat efficiency. Taking transcendence for that sole purpose doesn't feel good.

I did read somewhere that RIOT is going to start giving away extra adaptive force for every point of CDR over cap even without transcendence, (I'd imagine transcendence would still increase that bonus). I don't know if this is true or not, I have not confirmed. If this is true, I hope it's not their permanent solution, because I'd assume you'd still be missing out on gold/adaptive force efficiency similarly to how transcendence is now. (That is buying 10% CDR and transforming it to adaptive force would be more expensive than just buying that same amount of adaptive force upfront)