So, Fizz has fallen off the radar

FancyKiddo·1/23/2017, 1:34:58 AM·8 votes·2,085 views
Champion.gg - Fizz Middle Stats, Builds, Runes, Masteries and Counters

A few weeks ago, the boards were raging about Fizz yet again (with shark attachment after he misses being the issue), and a Red came on and said "yeah we're looking to remove power from Fizz's ultimate but to give him better baseline efficiency."

Even though Fizz has fallen off the radar, those are STILL CHANGES THAT SHOULD HAPPEN.

Let's look at Fizz's outstanding stats here, relative to other mid laners: 3rd-most kills 6th-most deaths 2nd-worst CS 7th-highest ban rate 6th least damage dealt 5th least assists

This describes the exact play pattern that the assassin update was intended to mitigate: Fizz's high deaths and high kills mean that he's jumping in, getting a kill no matter what the enemy team does, and then instantly dies.

Fizz's extremely-low CS means he's getting bullied out of lane. Extremely-low damage and assists means that he's not interacting with other champions except to 100->0 them with ult, and then die.

And his ban rate means that people don't want to play against him.

By having Fizz NEED to ult someone from full range in order to provide any assistance to his team, Fizz then needs to use both Q and E in order to get in range of his target. This leaves him with no way to get back out, so in order to be picked, he has to be "one-shotting" the target that he hit with R in order to be effective. And he can't do anything without his ult. This sounds a lot like the gameplay pattern that was so toxic on Rengar and Talon and resulted in them getting such large reworks.

And, as a jungle Fizz player, I'm horrified by how weak he is there and would like to see some buffs that increase his base non-ult gameplay power so that he can do better there.

**I'm hoping that Fizz hasn't disappeared off of the roadmap just because his winrate is reasonable and people have stopped complaining. **

At the same time, I've been told not to point out a problem without recommending a solution: More power needs to go back into Fizz's dueling potential. Bursting people while being tricky is no fun, so his damage should be spread out. W changes were trying to do this, but are ruined by R applying W. R should be relegated to a catch-out spell, rather than the bulk of Fizz's damage. The CD is so low as it is, that it's not a meaningful mechanic to prevent him from jumping on the enemy every time they return to lane if he gets a bit of a head start (which really, he doesn't get until his level 6 power spike). And the fact that it's so powerful means he gets almost a guaranteed level-6 kill, otherwise his abysmal laning phase just isn't worth doing.

Changes I might make: Passive buff (more damage blocked from AA harass). This improves his jungling and his early laning. Q addition: Applies W Active to all targets hit W change to: Passive: deal bonus magic damage per attack, multiplied against targets affected by the Active DoT Active: AA reset, your next attack deals % HP damage over time R change to: No longer get bigger/deal more damage as the shark moves farther Fizz gains a movement speed bonus toward the fish

This does a few things: Gives Fizz better dueling power at all points of the game, while avoiding making him more bursty. Q->W is no longer a thing for big burst, but instead he wants to space out Q, W, and R in order to keep the DoT up as long as possible. Gives Fizz better jungling. %HP damage is great against camps, and passive buffs help him remain healthier. Makes R feel less like garbage, and provides room to make him play properly. Rather than buffing the slow, R now speeds Fizz toward the enemy so that he can avoid using Q and E in order to get in range. And the insane burst from R->W is gone now, and the giant shark utility is gone now. Gives Fizz a very good reason to level W instead of E, making him less mobile and frustrating early game.

While I'd like to see changes like that, I'd mostly just like to hear that something is on the way to make Fizz more fun to play as and against, by shifting his focus away from the old "bad" assassin all-in playstyle and toward something else.

19 Comments

Penns1/23/2017, 2:22:24 AM2 votes

There should be pretty much finalized changes to him already, Id expect them to be on pbe soon... hopefully lol.

Calabok1/23/2017, 2:37:38 AM1 votes

if he has, its not a bad thing. if he has not, then he should be.

THE RlVER KlNG1/23/2017, 3:18:36 AM1 votes

Tahm Kench is 27 / 28 support and 50 / 55 top.

With <46% winrates to boot.

Fizz has a near 50% winrate. He's fine where he is.

forist1/23/2017, 3:46:24 AM1 votes

Not many champions are capable of being played on the lcs stage. Keep in mind that fizz is one of them, he's fine where he is.

Dolasaur1/23/2017, 5:15:28 AM1 votes

And he can't do anything without his ult. This sounds a lot like the gameplay pattern that was so toxic on Rengar and Talon and resulted in them getting such large reworks.

Their toxic patterns were similar to each other, but not to Fizz. Rengar's and Talon's problem was that [when ahead] they could reliably choose to kill you and there was no room for counterplay short of pink wards. They were out of range of you doing anything, and then suddenly they're in your face and you die in about .25 seconds. Talon and Rengar were both truly atrocious at this.

Fizz has a skillshot with a long range. You can dodge it just by running (although that's sort of hard with how big it is now, lol). You can Flash or use some other mobility to dodge it. If it hits you, you can Zhonya's the damage. Your team has 2 seconds to shield you because they know he's 100% going to target you (instead of being able to change targets if the ADC gets a lot of shields but the APC is still vulnerable). When Fizz is rushing in, your support has time to Exhaust him (instead of just .25s as Rengar/Talon enters your 400 radius pink ward at 700 move speed, minus time for your ping and your reaction time).

He has other similarities with them, and maybe could use more work. But while Talon and Rengar used to be 10/10 on the "can't do anything about this" scale, Fizz was more of a 6/10.

Ionian Vulpix1/28/2017, 10:41:49 PM1 votes

I don't think Riot knows what they want to do with Fizz so they're going to leave him underpowered since he's really not fun to play against when he's strong until they figure out what they want him to do.

rtbf761092711/29/2017, 1:56:12 AM1 votes

but people hate fizz so good luck getting a positive change for him. They fucked him up once so I dont see why they would try again and have it actually be better. I've already accepted he will be unhealthy and guttered for a long long time :(

Poske1/23/2017, 2:10:06 AM1 votes

Maybe fizz is ment to be an exception

Just take a look at syhvana. She is Juggernaut with diver ultimate

Also fizz can escape through his assassination. Just E over target and Q backwards

Talinis1/29/2017, 8:42:49 PM1 votes

Jungle Fizz is fine bro, people are just playing and building him wrong.

http://imgur.com/6zmlAxI http://imgur.com/sXdIXTA

I'm 15w/5l with last 20 jng fiz games with 11.3 / 4.0 / 9.7 ---- 5.29 kda and 3 of those losses were from intentional feeders.

I've played well over 1000 jng games as old fizz and i can tell you new fizz is better with the new jungle. full build is 13.2k gold, easily done on a junglers income and allows for extreme snowball along with seal/mejai.

That said there are general problems with the rework and that is mostly why I take him jungle as it avoids a lot of those issues.