LS/Thorin on why NA server and esports sucks

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ubzoQDefgYw&start_radio=1&list=RDubzoQDefgYw

I find this discussion very interesting but am not entirely convinced in thier conclusions because there are too many factors involved to easily pinpoint just one.

Culture is indeed a powerful thing, and people have been raised in the west to think culture has no inherent value to the success of a society. They take for granted how western culture has been at the root of its success globally. Likewise, I think its fair to say that certain countries have cultures that are more conducive to success in certain games.

I would say Americans definitely do have a culture of seeking novelty and uniqueness which can be a good thing in the context of business, science, art, etc. We are raised with examples of people who innovated as what led to them being a success. But this does not always translate into success in a static strategy game environment where you can distill everything down to what is mathematically best and what isn't. You cant really innovate on a game that has already been mathematically solved. But you can innovate in the real world where everything hasnt been solved.

I also think its true that our culture also looks for the quick fix and easy path to victory, focusing on results rather than how you got there - BUT I don't see this being a cultural trait we historically had throughout the 20th century. This is a more modern development which I think effects those under 35 the worst.

However, I am not convinced that America lacks a competitive or cooperative culture, or people willing to put in the time to sacrifice for long term goals. We see it evident in our sports teams that people can serve the greater good and sacrifice everything to be the best. It is just not that common in our esports teams (although we did win the dota2 international, beating the chinese who normally win). So our culture does have it. It has just not found its way into Esports much for some reason.

I suspect a lot of this has more to do with the simple fact that the most competitive and driven people in America are drawn to other pursuits that pay better and offer more prestige. Sports, business, etc. We have so many other forms of competitive entertainment that esports is just not big enough to attract our best and brightest.

Its the same reason that some countries dominate some sports more than others - it has to do with what they as a culture consider important and worth pursuing. The more esteem they put on a sport, the more seriously they take it, and the more the average citizen takes part in it, means the more people they have to drawn upon who are good enough at it to go pro. Its the reason the USA is usually unbeatable in basketball at the olympics but rarely does well in international soccer - because Americans are too busy playing other sports to give a damn about soccer. All our best talent is in other sports that we care more about. Or why Canada reigns supreme in hockey but cant compete in other sports at the same level. Culturally countries put greater emphasis on some sports over others, and I believe the same happens in esports.

Thier obsesvations about the attitude if players on NA is interesting. It's the same thing Neace complained about - that you have players in masters and challengers who dont even care. They dont try thier hardest. They arent always trying to actually win. If that is happening at the highest level then what is happening lower? This is definitely not an environment that is going to foster players who are competitive at a world level.

However, I wonder if we can really say which came before the other. Is it because we have a lax attitude on NA server that we dont raise up better players, or do we have a lax attitude on NA sever because culturally we only see it as a waste of time media distraction not worth taking seriously like major physical sports so few of our truly competitive minded people ever gravitate towards it? So the only people who play it are those just playing for fun. I suspect the later. Almost nobody in our country considers esports a legitmate competitive sport. They are still surprised to hear that there even is such a thing as esports, much less hear that people actually can make a living doing it. Even with record prize pools for dota and some play on espn, it still hasnt entered the mainstream consciousness of this country.