So sustain based champions aren't supposed to work anymore?

MorganFreemanBot·11/1/2015, 8:37:14 PM·5 votes·1,713 views

I assume we've all seen the new Executioner's Calling and Mortal Reminder items, but just incase anyone hasn't..

How exactly is this okay? Over the past few years Riot has removed numerous sources of Grievous Wounds due to the 'invisible power' which it granted, and the only thing they've given it to was item 3165 . However that requires a target to be below 40%.

So I'm genuinely curious how Riot expects Fiddlesticks Warwick Swain DrMundo Trundle Aatrox Hecarim Zac Vladimir to fair with these changes? I'm not even referring to champions who have kits designed to take advantage of life-steal effects in them, but simply kits who have a large amount of their power dedicated to self healing. I understand that some people may not like Vladimir , and that Aatrox and Zac have been problems in the past.. But seriously? Swain Fiddlesticks DrMundo Trundle are champions which really aren't seen very much, and other than Fiddlesticks have had almost no time at the top of the pile in years. The only reason Fiddlesticks was even relevant for a time was because of his point-and-click huge duration hard CC, not his damage or lifesteal.

Mortal Reminder isn't even an ADC only item. It's simply bonus armor pen, AD, and the healing reduction passive. Most assassins and several bruisers / fighters, as well as many an adc, will be running around with this item.. At which point any physical damage they do will half the self healing these guys do.

Inherently there's nothing wrong with items that prey upon weaknesses or cut specific strengths. We have this all over the place with active and passive effects. Attack speed reduction items like item 3082 target some champs more than others (usually carries),item 3143 's crit damage reduction targets carries, current item 3165 targets sustain champs,item 3153 targets health tanks,item 3035 and item 3135 targets resistance targets, item 3140 is made to counteract champions who depend on debuffs or hard cc the job done, and lastly item 3157 negates burst in several ways. These items and more are important because they let you build certain champs / builds and exploit weakness. This is fine and healthy, it leads to intelligence in item choice and lets you do specific things in specific cases.

However, of these items, the only ones which really begin to invalidate champions themselves - as opposed to hurting the way that they may build / keeping their power in check - are item 3140 and item 3157 . Yet while those are extraordinarily frustrating, they're also reigned in by the fact that they only effect you personally. You aren't QSSing aren't removing every debuff from your team, nor removing every single debuff on every team member put up by a select champion. So it's not blatantly making the affected champions useless because they can still go for other targets. Or wait for you to blow it for another reason.

However these two new items have none of this trade off. As it stands, the amount of power which this item grants vs champions who rely on kit at the kit level is disproportionate in the extreme. Imagine if item 3110 reduced attack speed by 50%, item 3143 reduced crit damage by 40%, item 3022 reduced all enemy movement speed within 700 units by 50% or item 3153 did 15% max health damage every hit.

The above examples are obviously extreme cases we'd never want, right? They'd utterly annihilate any champion who depended on certain aspects. The point which I'm trying to touch upon is that if the above items were changed in the mentioned ways, they'd totally invalidate a range of champions (each) simply by being built. Building a item 3022 if it applied a permanent 50% snare to all enemies within 700 range would make champions without dashes (and even many who had them) utterly worthless. item 3153 that did 15% max hp damage per attack would make any tank who built health utterly worthless, they might as well pull the plug and not participate anymore once that item is completed.

That's what we're talking about with the new Executioner's Calling and Mortal Reminder items. You build them, champs who have sustain in their kit and are designed to take advantage of it in order to do their job.. Are worthless if you touch them. Their current health doesn't matter, their current build doesn't even matter; there's currently no counter go grievous wounds. You auto attack them once and a major part of their kit is magically 50% as effective, no thought or interaction needed. This is even more horrifying because it's not on a personal basis.

I suppose that my simple suggestion / idea would be to give it the Nomicon treatment; making it so that the effect is only applied on the target when they're below 40%. Either that or making it have a slight longer duration, but be an active with a respectable cooldown. Say 7-8 seconds of healing reduction on a single target (or perhaps 4 seconds on all targets you deal physical damage to for the next 7-8 seconds) on a 90 second cooldown.

In the end though, I just really want this item looked at for reasons which are not selfless. I've been a Trundle jungle main all season, and since he was reworked back in s3 he's bounced between my favorite and second top-lane champ depending on what's popular up there. I enjoy the baiting aspects to his kit and the ability to yank out surprising healing in situations. Yet if these items go through untouched, I won't be able to function as soon as an enemy gets one of these items and decides to tag me with it. Yet this won't even hit me the hardest.

New Executioner's Calling costs 800g, 350 of which is the cost of a longsword. If this stuff goes through then none of these champions will be viable in lane. You will be able to reliably have an item that lets you shred 50% of self healing from DrMundo or Swain before they even have their ultimates, the primary (or in Swain 's case only) source of self healing. How is it even remotely fair that you should be able to hard-counter Swain 's ultimate before he even gets it?

18 Comments

Krinu11/2/2015, 2:21:18 AM3 votes

I main {{Champion:16}}.

If Executioner's Calling goes live, I will have to find a new main, because she will be useless.

I mean, at 50% healing reduction, Soraka needs several hundred AP just to give away more health than she loses. I understand minor nerfs, but at that point, you're better off sitting at spawn fountain to give your lane partner more XP than you are being in lane with him or her.

We went through this with World of Warcraft, and I really hope Ghostcrawler points it out to the folks handling balance for you. 50% healing reduction debuffs impose some very real constraints on gameplay: Either healing is balanced around their presence, in which case healing is obscenely overpowered when they're not present, or it's balanced around their absence, in which case they're devastating to healers when they are.

Right now, we're working under the previous paradigm: Healing is balanced around Grevious Wounds not being present, and the two common sources of Grevious Wounds - summoner 14 and item 3165 - are limited enough to be acceptable counters to result in balance. The new Calling, however, will shift us over to the first paradigm... and all the champions that rely on healing or lifesteal will be gone.

So please, for the love of all that comes in green numbers, please do not hand out GW like candy.

LadyRenly11/1/2015, 10:51:37 PM2 votes

Sustain champs are bad, but every ad champ having lifesteal on everything is totally different!!

Captain Aishi11/1/2015, 10:49:44 PM1 votes

Riot is currently too busy doing ALL the cocaine to realise that grievous wounds needs to be a 5 second active on the item with a minute cooldown or so if they want to balance it properly...

but hey, let's remove brutalizer and nerf wits end so we don't have a 1337 gold item or a 42 onhit damage item in the game anymore ; ;

fugatotabued9111/1/2015, 8:49:23 PM1 votes

Ok

Kharn Skyshatter11/2/2015, 12:44:07 AM1 votes

This pre-season just seems to be Riot's way of saying champions like Volibear we are trying to make sure are never meta viable.

Axxlon11/1/2015, 9:11:26 PM1 votes

How many people seriously don't realize that Exec's Calling has been in the game since before release and was only removed last season? -__-

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Executioner's_Calling

Fiveofswords11/2/2015, 8:12:34 AM1 votes

well...Hecarim is one of my main champs and i really dont think he will be affected by heal debuffs. His w is only really useful for the 1st few levels...its pretty much irrelevant in mid/late game. I am concerned, however, how the new triforce is going to mess with him. Nasus is a guy you forgot about that will hate this, however