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Mobility / safety should have a cost / trade offs, right?

Toso Tea·3/2/2015, 4:36:58 PM·27 votes·2,066 views

That really is the case, right Riot? In that case...

All ADC's who have any sort of mobility should have lower range ( nothing above 525 ) Ezreal 525 range, Corki 525 range, Graves already has this ( I think it should be 500 range however seeing as how his main tradeoff for lower range is survivability ) Lucian's changes was a step in the right direction, he still sees play but isn't a dominant pick like Corki, Ezreal and Graves. Tristana would start off lower but gain range over time of course. ( 525 at level 1 to 625 at level 18 ) She's meant to be THE late game ADC, so her weaker early / mid game is her trade off for her mobility, same with Vayne ( who lets face it, even with 550 range isn't THAT mobile )

This would also be a boost to immobile ADC's like Varus, Ashe, Kogmaw, who do need love. Caitlyn would become a dominant pick of course, so maybe make her net not launch her back, or give her lower damage?

In terms of mages, a mobile mage shouldn't have wave clear. Viktor can clear full ranged minion waves with his E because he has no mobility, Ahri on the other hand, can also do this but is one of the most mobile in the game. That is something that is honestly silly and you know it, Riot. Perhaps make certain mobile mage spells do reduce damage to minions? This could be a great change to assassins like Leblanc, she shouldn't be able to blow someone up, be uncatchable AND clear entire waves in 1.5 seconds. She's on e of my favorite champions, but since you are giving a similar approach to Veigar and Kassadin ( No champion should be able to blow someone up while having an instant 2.5 second aoe stun, no one champion should be so durable with having so much mobility and damage )

Don't play favorites, if you are going to do this to one group of champions, do it to all or don't do it at all.

Mobility is fun, I agree, but it isn't fun when it crowds out everyone that doesn't have such things in their tool kits. You are close to the strategic diversity you want in mid and adc, this may be the solution to obtaining that.

Assassins should beat out long range siegers, for they have no mobility to deal with them. Long range should beat out the short ranges mobile guys, for they have no wave clear, unlike Long range, and short ranged mobiles should be out assassins, for they can escape the grasps of an assassin and deal with them, unlike long ranged guys like Varus and Xerath.

That's just my 2 cents, don't get too upset over my own personal opinion please. = )

20 Comments

Kitten of Evil3/2/2015, 6:27:46 PM6 votes

I would just prefer more ability to punish mobile champions, and that's something Riot has been slowly but surely phasing out (removing point-and-click abilities like old Sion's Q and Zilean's bombs... probably Taric's E next too).

This is entirely the problem with mobility. An immobile mage has to think about a lot of things in lane: where am I positioned? Where is the enemy laner positioned? Is the enemy jungler nearby? Have I warded so I can safely push? How much mana do I have left, and how much do I need to drop a full combo? How much mana does the enemy have? What are his/her cooldowns? Are they level 6 or close to it? Is my Flash/CC move up in case I get dived? How is my CS doing?

Excessively mobile champions like Leblanc barely have to worry about half those things (positioning and map awareness)... and manaless mobile champions have to think about even less (Lee Sin, Nidalee's cougar form).

I love playing immobile champions (Viktor, Vel'Koz, Malzahar, Anivia)... and when I'm caught out of position I deserve the untimely death coming my way. I made a mistake. Mobile champions don't have to pay for making that mistake, unless they're so out of position that a dash or two won't fix it.

TL;DR: I agree with your point, but I don't play ADC if I can help it, so here's my point of view as a mage main.

Retillin3/2/2015, 5:24:03 PM6 votes

The problem stems from the fact that Riot DOESN'T want this kind of balance. They are not making a game for fun. They are trying to create a sport. And in sports scoring (kills) and flashy plays keep people entertained. So they (Riot) has no problem keeping the "boring to watch" champions weak, while keeping the "exciting" champions strong.

SmokingPuffin3/3/2015, 1:28:50 AM5 votes

Vayne ( who lets face it, even with 550 range isn't THAT mobile )

You know mobility creep has come a long way when Vayne is thought of as "not that mobile".

In terms of mages, a mobile mage shouldn't have wave clear.

I think these kinds of design rules needlessly constrict the design space. Compare "marksmen should not have hard CC" -- the ways that this rule is broken in the current champion pool broaden the role and increase the depth of the game.

In my view, it's much better to simply say "mobility should come at a fair cost" and let each kit designer figure out how to make that cost fair.

Mobility is fun, I agree, but it isn't fun when it crowds out everyone that doesn't have such things in their tool kits.

I don't think that is happening. Check this list of the 10 most contested champions in NA LCS so far this season:

Mobile (has at least one dash or flash): Kassadin Lissandra JarvanIV RekSai Ahri

Immobile (no dashes or flashes in kit): Janna Sivir Rumble Morgana Annie

I'm much more interested in talking about specific champions who are not up to par (e.g. Varus) than I am saying that all immobile champions are weak. I really don't think it's true. Lots of the immobile champions feel pretty strong in the current meta.

Economicz3/2/2015, 7:00:21 PM4 votes

Ezreal is poke mobility with weak damage. Why would they lower his range? You're the only person I've seen call him a strong pick. I haven't felt disadvantaged on an immobile adc. Varus synergizes so well with bork and it makes him a lot safer.

Aziriously3/2/2015, 5:38:42 PM3 votes

Ez and Corki have 550 range. Also Trist getting 625 range at level 18 would be garbage because that'd be less than Cait at Lv1. Lucian only needed it because he has (or had) high burst, and that was stupid from 550 range.

They already gutted Veigar and Kassadin to an extent. Maybe they'll find a way to balance them one day, but true balance is honestly impossible in a game with 123 characters and growing. Saying that no champion should have burst and wave-clear makes it seem like you want the mage role to be extremely linear, where's the game in that? Sure LB can burst you and clear waves with W, but it's not like she'll be doing all that at the same time unless she's fed and you stand in a wave of minions, lol. Not to mention if she used W to wave clear, that's your team's opportunity to jump on her if possible.

Robert Smith3/2/2015, 5:31:42 PM1 votes

I think people already hate how mele beat certain range people already. Lowering range makes adc almost useless against mele assassins such as kat and talon

Spacesuit Spiff3/3/2015, 3:01:03 AM1 votes

Maybe something they could do is have the CD of Flash decreased by 60s for champions with no mobility moves (speed boost don't count). Or increase it for champs that have dashes.

Spacefight0r3/3/2015, 3:13:26 AM1 votes

I'm not sure where the idea that champions must always pay for mobility came from. I don't think champion strengths and weaknesses were ever supposed to be zero-sum. Aside from that, it's almost impossible to determine what the value of a certain element a champion kit is actually worth.

Hyrum Graff3/3/2015, 7:17:15 AM1 votes

I agree that champions should pay for mobility, but saying they should all pay in the same way is silly. That's just a way to make adcs even less diverse than they already are.

Toso Tea3/4/2015, 8:40:01 AM1 votes

The thing with point and click targeted CC like Taric's and Ryze's, yeah it's effective vs Kalista but it's even more effective towards Ashe.

I think Riot wants to give Immobile champs a Niche instead of punishing Mobile ones. Which I'm actually okay with and they've kind of done that already.

But what good is a niche if someone else does other things way better? Your niche can just be filled by another champion. Though most engage counts as disengage as well, so a team with Sona, Lee Sin, Rumble and Viktor wouldn't suddenly downgrade in quality if they chose more Engage / Disengage like Varus over something like Ezreal though.

But I feel as if Xerath is a good example that Immobile champions still have a place in the game, they just need to do the 1 good thing they do better than anyone else. Xerath has a Masters Degree in Poke with a Bachelors in Wave Clear, which is why he is played so often at a higher level. With Sion ( even though I count his ult as mobility, many of times have I yelled COWARDS while running away with it ) He's arguably the hardest guy to take down in the game, which is why he's kind of taken Mundo's place, despite Mundo gaining speed and more flexibility with his ult as opposed to Sion's.

But then you look at Varus, who is one of the least mobile ADC's. He gets out poked by Ezreal (even though I find his arrows to be WAYYY better than Blondies, Ezreal can do it much more often. " Out ranged by Caitlyn, out engaged / disengaged by many bruisers / tanks / Janna , out bursted by Graves, see where I'm going? I mention Varus so much because he's my favorite champion despite ADC being my least favorite role, and most importantly, because Riot is planning to do just that and give him a Niche akin to Xerath. Varus will be THE ADC you want for long range poke and disengage when you need some on your team, and this makes me happy.

But that's besides the point as you can simply push a key and move your mouse over to the left a bit with half the champions in the game and dodge it with a dash without the majority having any meaningful downside / compensation for this.

And I find that this needs to change if you want the diversity everyone craves for. Riot you can make immobile champs exciting to watch in your e sport, just look at Cassiopeia 5 man ults and Varus going Legolas, sniping people blindly, that's just as fun as watching Kalista 1v4 people to me, even more so since in a way, the immobile champs are the underdogs really in a mobility creep plagued game. Most people like to see the underdogs win, which is why myself and many other people would love to see some sort of shift in what is played and what is not. = )

Cujo3/6/2015, 3:55:21 AM1 votes

nope, new 120 AP item grants 7% Movement Speed. So pretty much all the mages you're going to see are even faster now.

Jungle Lux God3/3/2015, 1:06:04 AM1 votes

I can't say anything about most ADC's since I don't play most ADC's, but I can talk about Corki, as he's the only ADC I really play.

Corki does have a dash, but even with the dash he's really not that mobile. His dash has a fairly lengthy cooldown and a fairly high mana cost, which can be difficult to play with when a large majority of his lane presence comes from using his abilities. Use one dash and you are vulnerable for the next 15+ seconds, especially when you consider the fact that he has no CC to account for his lack of mobility outside of his Valkyrie.