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Why is the game balanced based on the "the pro scene"?

Kuma No Neko·12/6/2014, 6:00:23 PM·3 votes·1,555 views

There are tons of champions that need nerfs or changes no one disagrees on that, but it seems they only nerf someone if they're literally broken or a pro team wins does good with them. And certain champions that need buffs coughcough won't get buffed until they're destroyed on a pro match. A champion like Yi 'needs' to be nerfed other than just the devourer being nerfed, which I agree with. Do I think there's literally zero counter play to Yi? (almost) no, but he's not just stronger than other junglers, he can kill an entire team in seconds unless he's stunned which everyone on the forums just screams at anyone who says he's overpowered but then they forget there are 4 things in this game that turn off stuns, Banshee's,Cleanse,Scimitar, and Morgana. And really what champion isn't useless when stunned, it's not a unique weakness to Yi but Yi has more counterplay to it than a lot of champions do. He has his Q which you can't stun him during, not jokingly he moves too fast for some CC and can't be slowed, and he has his 70% damage reduction channel that heals him for 110+ health per second and he does true damage every attack. And to finish the Yi part of this post, if stuns counter every champion (they do) and one is more powerful than every other jungler when not stunned, they're overpowered.

Gnar was also one of my favorite champions and I still like him but he's not even close to viable, his Q was never a great harass and his only damage was in his W which is pretty weak and I thought I was the only one to say "Gnar has no damage and literally the lowest defense stats in the game and his tank-mode doesn't let you do damage if you max damage, but if I build tank I'm always tank and I have respectable damage" and he was somewhat viable if I built Atma's on him but obviously he was still only useful in the late game for his Ult and in the early game for his kiting but my point is that I have no idea how anyone could argue that Gnar is powerful against anyone but Shyvanna and he falls off late game like a skydiver in October.

This is just a few of the examples, there are tons of problem champions because they're too weak or because they're too strong And the only ones that get changed seem to be the ones that get played in pro matches

26 Comments

Dominick Destine12/6/2014, 6:43:24 PM4 votes

Because you don't balance for people that do not know how to play the game; you balance around people that do.

Gnar is already incredibly powerful and could even stand to get a few nerfs, not buffs.... Wukong too strong? rofl, this is why you are bronze, sir.

Decimus12/6/2014, 6:11:02 PM1 votes

I kind of disagree on Gnar and Quinn being weak. Top lane their both outstanding lane bullies against melee bruisers and its hard to find times to properly grab a kill off them as Gnar can always hop out and Quinn can either blind or create distance with her E. These two champs always give me a difficult time when I'm playing Riven/Irelia/Renekton

Cale01712/6/2014, 6:12:34 PM1 votes

Because the pros are the ones who know the game better than we do. It might not be something you necessarily want to hear, but you also aren't getting paid to play League. If /anyone/ is going to be able to reveal problems with champions, it's the pro scene. This isn't to say that Riot ignores what happens in your standard normal or ranked matches, but the entire community knows what happens during pro games and what champions curbstomped what others.

Zanathax12/6/2014, 6:47:36 PM1 votes

Riot takes all levels of play into account when they decide on buffs and nerfs. It has happened many times in the past, and will again in the future. Do pros and highly ranked streamers have more influence than an average player? Sure they do. Gamers imitate them. If they come up with something that works well, thousands and even millions will imitate them. That takes things that were maybe not well known for a long time and puts them in every other game you play.

Gnar is absolutely not underpowered. He has well defined strengths and weaknesses. Calling Yi OP is silly. Like seriously silly. Can he get fed and be a late game terror? Sure... here's a hint - don't feed him. Jump on him early game and mess up his rhythm. He's a melee carry, so he's a late game champ. If you let him get 3 or 4 completed items, he's going to start curbstomping your team. Stopping this means hunting him down in his jungle, taking his farm, and otherwise messing with him in the early game. A fed Tristana, Vayne, or Lucian can destroy your entire team every bit as easily as Yi. So can Jax. Akali. Zed. Rengar. Kha'zix. Heck, the list would require me to put down half the champs in the game.

Lastly, If your favorite champs have problems against specific enemies then the game is likely designed for that to work that way. Literally. Despite what the newbs will say, certain champions are designed to counter other types of champs. Maybe get better at your own champions and find strategies that allow you to deal with those counters instead of coming on the forums and begging for buffs and nerfs?

SmokingPuffin12/6/2014, 6:49:42 PM1 votes

Most of this post is wrong.

Probably you should spend less time thinking about balance and more time getting good.

Killstrado12/6/2014, 6:54:27 PM1 votes

Just saying xerath can E W Q most champs to death from full health lol try playing better. gnar and talon need nothing either, zac on the other hand needs everything

Gigahappytown12/6/2014, 6:58:04 PM1 votes

Talon xerath weak? kek wukongs a solid pick at best

the game is balanced around diamond~lcs because its a competitive game and those are the best of the best and most competitive players

Kuroi8612/6/2014, 8:05:20 PM1 votes

It's not balanced simply around the pro scene, but around the highest tiers of play, Challenger, Diamond, maybe even Plat to a degree.

AetherKingdom12/6/2014, 8:41:23 PM1 votes

bronzers thinking their opinion on balance matters

disregardable12/6/2014, 6:06:43 PM1 votes

Well someone just lost a lane against a Yi as Gnar.

Yi doesn't need a nerf; you need to learn how to play against him. Gnar doesn't need a buff, you need to learn how to use him.

Pryotra12/6/2014, 11:12:32 PM1 votes

Gnar has an incredible amount of damage, so no, I don't think that he needs a buff. Perhaps you should learn his mechanics. During his ranged form his DPS is incredible, so you should harrass in lane with that often, as it counters most melee. Flip side is his tank form, which should be your "all in" mode as it is pretty resilient.

Yi is pretty binary in his playstyle, so just save CC for him, or just burst him on sight in teamfights (this is why you ward, so you can see him coming and maybe catch him early). He is also hardcountered by thornmail, so there is that if you are struggling against him.

Xerath too weak? We really must be playing different games. He does a good amount of damage at pretty long range. Try attacking from orbit with him, and build AP.

Poppy is not "too strong" unless the game lasts longer than 45 minutes. That said, pre 15 she is hardly able to exist. Smash her early and she will struggle all game.

Malz is pretty balanced right now IMO, as is Zac and Quinn, believe it or not. Quinn just takes getting used to, as she is not your average ADC. Zac and Malz are fine though, and you just need to learn their rhythm.

Wukong is fairly balanced imo, as while he has good damage for sure, his sustain is rather low and his clone is pretty obvious. As he needs to effectively be face range to do his damage, I would say he is fine.

Talon I haven't seen recently, but I don't feel he is on track atm thanks to his loss of silence. As for WW, I think the preseason jungle is more to blame for his current state over his actually power level, as his main strength is that smite in particular is too synergistic with his ult. Give riot time to tune this jungle before we judge here.