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Why is it ok for tanks like Darius and Garen to build full tank and do tons of damage still

Slim Gragas·9/6/2018, 3:34:23 PM·3 votes·2,257 views

While there's plenty of balance issues i believe, one problem is I don't see a point in playing an assassin when I can just play a champion that can go full tank yet often deal the most damage in the match. Why are tanks like Darius and Garen being banned so much more often now? Is it because it's been realized how broken it is to be undying and yet be the damage carry as well? Garen is as straightforward as it gets as a champion and the low risk is totally worth the high reward for playing him. Darius just gets his stacks off on one person and then wipes the team as its much harder to deal with him when its a teamfight and hes full tank anyway so its not like its worth it to focus him the whole fight. Like i said i can think of plenty unbalanced things in the game like Zoe and the new Akali because we needed new mechanics like Sleep and True stealth, obviously they are healthy for the game. You can thank CertaintlyT for all that balance though, he's had a part in quite a few of very notable "cancer" champions and their reworks. Inb4 "loool just kite them they have no mobility". Tell that to righteous glory and dead man's.

*Also don't get me wrong, I believe that there's balancing issues with every role but I was especially annoyed recently because of Darius rolling teams when he isn't banned in my matches. As another balance example, there's plenty to worry about like the rune/mastery system favoring some champions over others as some become mediocre at best if they can't utilise a mastery as well as others can.

24 Comments

Alex h87219/6/2018, 4:38:03 PM6 votes

PSA: item 3071 item 3078 item 3748 item 3053 are NOT "tank" items

Alzon9/6/2018, 3:41:05 PM6 votes

Juggernauts are meant to be characters with good defense and situationally high damage, the usual “situation” requirement being that they can get into melee range as an immobile champion.

Fighters, on the other hand, are meant to have high damage and situational high defense, like Parry, Windwall, Meditate, and Undying Rage.

Paroe9/6/2018, 3:58:52 PM5 votes

Is your definition of "FULL TANK" item 3071 item 3748 item 3742 item 3065 item 3047 item 3053 by chance? Because thats not tank, thats bruiser.

Hayaishi9/6/2018, 4:49:18 PM4 votes

How is a trinity force Steraks Darius "Full tank"

ForFoxSakes9/6/2018, 3:41:52 PM4 votes

Neither of them are tanks

Manes Shade9/7/2018, 12:15:21 AM2 votes

I main Garen.

I can tell you I build to have 550-600MS, have 300 attack damage 3k HP and around 250 Armor/Magic Resist. Those are the max stats I have gotten

With all that I die within two seconds of fighting anybody who is actually fighting me. (usually because I can not reach them before I die) My damage is Sup par even at 300 if i can get within Range of an enemy. Some champs I will never catch(Ahri, Miss Fortune, Tristana, Rhyze) It just will not happen even at my 550 speed. If the ADC has even one hp Item, unless I am hella fed they will win in a straight up fight against me even without the need to kite. Hands down I can not out damage them. between their range to deal pre-emptive damage, ranged skills, and usually Life Steal I am dead before I can do anything. Now if they know how to Kite I literally just quit trying to kill them because it is IMPOSSIBLE to kill them.

Also did you know that If I hit more than one enemy with my E I deal 33% less damage? So i am literally dealing less damage than If I auto attacked them.

The only Reason I ever win is because I pick and choose when I fight. It is an actual battle of skill with Garen, Not a Skill battle.

And honestly I would love them to switch out my Ultimate for another skill. Oh joy I can Kill an enemy that has already lost the fight against me, BUT only if they are literally within My Q's Range anyway. yes I can deal 900 damage But that requires the enemy to have over 4k hp in the first place. Its a joke.

Honestly Demacian Justice is gimmicky as hell and should be replaced.
Compare To another Top lane champion Irelia Who will base deal 600 damage with her ultimate, No gimmick, plus an additional 600 damage if you walk through it. This is constant damage.

he really is not OP, at all. And frankly I think he needs an anti Kite Buff to be viable at all. In fact so does almost every pro player in league....

RookPusher9/6/2018, 3:47:49 PM1 votes

Because he's a juggernaught. His mobility is the reason for those feats. Having said that, they need to increase the CD on his Apprehend. It's just oppressive and there's no real punishment for missing.

The thigh guy9/6/2018, 6:58:51 PM1 votes

Garen needs his villain passive removed and the execute removed. Someone building full tank + a cleaver should not have a 900 true damage execute on someone at half health.

Slim Gragas9/6/2018, 4:27:51 PM1 votes

I think the point is being missed here. I should've worded it differently and not just said full tank. Dealing tons of damage with no risk as you are very tanky. Mobility problems aren't even an argument with these champions. You build dead man's with typical boots(and maybe masteries like phase rush) and the problem is solved. Garen already has cc reduction and mobility in his kit and like I said Darius gets it very easily. I'm not liking the way their balancing is going it's clear that its going towards tanks again, so it's not like these 2 are the only offenders but they are definitely the main ones.

Saying that "but they aren't actually considered tanks tho" doesn't change the fact that they are still VERY tanky with their builds even as juggernauts and have such ease of carrying a game with the amount of damage they both do.

Doge20209/6/2018, 7:11:12 PM1 votes

Juggernauts deal a bunch of damage yes, but they have zero gapclosers and dashes/blinks. So they have to be at least a little bit tanky so they can survive in a teamfight. Fighters and melee assassins are different because they have a multitude of ways to enter or exit a fight, with assassins having more ways than fighters. If you have a hard time against juggernauts as a top laner or jungler then you can try and camp top to try and make sure the juggernaut gets behind and can’t get his/her powerspike items and can get blown up easily in a fight. Getting BORK and an armor reducing item will help to counter them if you are an AD auto attack reliant champ.

One good tip for anybody with lots of damage is to CC chain them, unless you walk into range of a rooted champ, it is kinda hard for that champ to deal damage and burst you down if they can’t attack or move in the first place. CC chaining or just using one good and long CC is good against a juggernaut because you can stop them from dealing their great amount of damage in a fight while you can then burst them down very easily. I would recommend trying to use stuns, knock ups or suppressions more than roots, a rooted champ can still AA and use their abilities that don’t move them (like nasus q) so if you want to effectively trade with somebody that is rooted try and stay out of range of their abilities/AA range and keep on attacking (this is easier if you are a ranged champ and a melee champ is rooted, harder if it is melee into a rooted ranged champ or you are a ranged champ trading into a rooted range champ).

Cuoco Diavolo9/6/2018, 7:18:55 PM1 votes

so juggernauts and fighters have what was once called the udyr trundle effect. Which is these champs have a hard time getting to a place where they can really do anything, however if they manage to do so they deserve every right to fuck your shit up be it with damage and/or sticking power

chipndip19/6/2018, 7:03:15 PM1 votes

They don't build full tank.
They aren't op.

Your analysis from the ground up is kinda faulty.